Time for a new Pot

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  • Last Post 26 September 2013
Michael K posted this 22 July 2013

Pigslayer steered me over to Track of the Wolf where Lee pots are in stock. My old Lyman XX is all but dead and not much success in locating parts to fix.

That brings me the prospect of buying a new pot. Needs to have at least a 20# capacity. Lee, Lyman, RCBS, other. Cost is not the only issue, longevity, durability, are temp control take priority.

I want something that will last and not need replacement or repair in a few years. So with the options out there what would be your choice and why if you to were buying one today.

Appreciate the input.

Many thank, Michael.

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JSH posted this 22 July 2013

Very first pot I had was an old potter I think was the name of it. Bought at a garage sale cheap. It bit the dust after a couple of years. Borrowed a lee 10 pound bottom pour for a year or two. Midway had the 20 on sale and bought one. Drip o magic for sure but there are cures that work. Used it and it worked fine for the past several years. Then bought out one of the old fellows I shoot with and had to take his rcbs pot. Paid more for it than I would have wanted too but it was an all or nothing deal. I have used it the past few sessions takes a little getting used too. Which ever way your budget allows though the lee seems more needy than the rcbs. Jeff

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RicinYakima posted this 22 July 2013

I still have the original Lee 10 pounder from the first production run in the 1970's. Never could stop the dripping, but put a screw in the bottom. Still works very well, except that I now use a Harman Electronic Digital Controller. The original thermostat varied between set point, and plus 200 hundred degrees! I have an old fine old SAECO, but when something breaks, it does not have repair parts available. The RCBS would never heat about 695 degrees, so it is hard wired for the Harman Controller.

It is very hard to beat the Lee new 20 pounders, but you need a PID controller to make it useable.

IMHO, Ric

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highstandard40 posted this 22 July 2013

I can only offer my personal experience. Years ago I started with a Lee 10lb Production pot. I don't really recommend it. I got away from casting for a while and when I got back in 4 years ago I got the Lee 20 lb. It was much better and I was able to refine my skills and cast a much better bullet. It is however lacking in several key areas. Last year, after saving my coins I purchased an RCBS 20 lb pot. In the 14 months since I purchased it, I have never used the Lee again and it is still collecting dust. If you were to ask me, save for the RCBS and don't look back.

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onondaga posted this 22 July 2013

The Lee 4-20 bottom pour has been wonderful for me. All the complaints about the 4-20 can be summed up as complaints from stubborn people that want the pot to work with their own instructions, not Lee's instructions.

A key and little bragged about part on the 4-20 is the mold guide.  THis guide doesn't require the mold to be placed squarely down flat like the guide on Lyman pots so you can tip your molds 5-10 degrees to the side for swirl casting that eliminates a lot of fussiness in bullet molds. Tip and pour with your stream hitting 1/2 of the slope to the sprue gate hole and 1/2 of the flow into the hole. This eliminates venting problems and hot spot porosity in castings.

Lube the exposed bearing surfaces of the valve assembly with high heat never seize grease and a very small brush when the pot is cool.

Dripping will be caused by crud on the mating surfaces of the valve point and seal.  Learn how to stir without pushing crud into there and learn how to empty the pot and clean and polish/re-seat the valve. The valve also spins with a screw driver for clearing the valve in use.

Mine is over 20 years old and has had many hundred pounds through it,  Long life free from rust is achieved by never leaving the pot full when done, leave a half inch of metal or none in the pot by pouring ingots and as soon as you are done casting, soak it with WD40  or silicone spray inside as soon as cooled.

I pick up the whole pot by the base and controller box with gloves on and if there is only a few pounds left, I will pour it directly into ingot molds by tipping the whole pot.   Yes, get an ingot mold. You can see I use one to catch over pour when casting in the pic below. I vent the pot out the kitchen window fans or cast on my porch about 100 pounds of bullets a year with the Lee 4-20 Bottom Pour Melting Pot. http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/CastingBench.jpg.html>

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6pt-sika posted this 22 July 2013

I have a Lee 4-10 and a Lee 4-20 that I purchased new about 12 years ago and they still do well . I use the 20 pound pot to render WW's to ingots or whatever I may be turning into usbale alloy . And generally cast with the 10 pounder .

I have wanted a Lyman/RCBS bottom pour for a long time but never was willing to get up off the Benjamin's to get one .

In the last two years I've been given two more pots another Lee 4-10 thats maybe 4 years old and a Lee 10 pound bottom pour thats maybe 4 or 5 years old . The 4-10 worked very nicely like my older 4-10 . But the other BP 10 pounder had some major rusting inside so the bottom pour valve is giving me more problems then the others . At some point I'm gonna go to work on it with valve grinding compound and either fix it or ruin it !

But to be honest the thing is very tight for using some of the larger molds I typically use and any valve drippage screws you up PDQ !

 

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highstandard40 posted this 22 July 2013

I used the Lee 4-20 for nearly 3 years and had good results with it. I never had major problems with drips as some have had. Keep it clean, use clean alloy, lubricate it where needed, and it will give decent results. It is cheaply built and I had to constantly tighten screws here and there that kept working loose. But everything it will do, the RCBS will do better. The RCBS has much better temperature control, better flow rate control, and is much better built. Yes, it costs more but you get what you pay for. Also, the mold guide will work just like Gary mentioned, meaning you can tilt the mold if you desire. The RCBS may be out of your budget. If so, go with the Lee 20. But if you can afford the RCBS, you will not regrat the purchase.

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Iowa Fox posted this 22 July 2013

I would avoid the Lyman. This company lacks customer friendly product support for its customers using their products. Lee & RCBS have great customer support for folks using their products. Lyman will not sell pot parts without sending the pot back to them. Repairs with shipping is as much as I paid for the Mag 20.

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Dale53 posted this 22 July 2013

I have been casting for over sixty years. I started with a Lyman 10# cast iron pot and Lyman dipper. I learned to do good work, but it is SLOW-W-W.

I progressed to a Lyman 11# bottom pour electric pot. I started doing some commercial casting. I added a 20# melting pot to feed the 11# bottom pour.

I then progessed to an RCBS 20# bottom pour pot(actually a 22.0 lb pot). Later, I had a chance to get another RCBS. I now have two but as I have gotten older, I generally only cast one pot full at a sitting.

Lee has the best value (I would only recommend the 20-4 Lee pot). RCBS has the best pot along with terrific customer service. If you can afford it, by all means get the RCBS bottom pour pot. If money is a problem, then the Lee is a value product with some (mostly, minor) problems that a lot of people have learned to live with.

I have used a dipper on thousands of bullets but I am a bottom pour man (and that includes thousands of very large black powder cartridge bullets). My standards are pretty dern high and I have no problems meeting them with a bottom pour pot. However, I learned to use one and it just takes a bit of a learning curve. I have some “students” that learned in a couple of sessions and are doing fine.

As has been said above, DO NOT DO ANY SMELTING IN YOUR CASTING POT. ONLY put clean ingots in your bottom pour pot. Crud gunks up the pouring valve and will give you no end of problems. I recommend a good fish fryer/turkey cooker (mine came from Bass Pro on sale for $30.00 or so) and get a 100#+ capacity melting pot (I use a six quart cast iron dutch oven from Harbor Freight but even better is a steel pot cut from a propane tank or a steel pot fabricated by a good welder). Another possibility is a large stainless STEEL cooking pot. Avoid ALL aluminum pots like the plague - they can fail when melting lead causing a catastrophic failure. Molten metal dumped all over your feet and legs is not something ANY of us needs...

Like anything else, I have ever done, you have to do some before you learn how...

Lyman makes a good pot but their customer service is not nearly as good as RCBS and Lee, in my experience.

FWIW Dale53

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cityboy posted this 22 July 2013

I began casting in 1962 using a SAECO pot and a H&G dipper and used it for years casting 45acp bullets. When the old SAECO quit I got a Lyman 20 lb pot and continued dipping. By this time I was also casting rifle bullets too. Quality of the bullets was good.

I kept reading about bottom pour pots and decided to get a Lyman 20 lb bottom pour pot. Big mistake. Quality was poor; the bullets were pimpled with what looked like entrained slag and fill was poor. I tried everything I could think of but nothing worked. The problem went away when I went back to dipping. I finally gave up and sold the darn thing. My first dipper was a Lyman; later I changed to a RCBS dipper because it held more melt.

Jim

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onondaga posted this 22 July 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=880>cityboy:

” decided to get a Lyman 20 lb bottom pour pot. Big mistake. Quality was poor; the bullets were pimpled with what looked like entrained slag and fill was poor. I tried everything I could think of but nothing worked."

That is too bad, I could have diagnosed your problem and taught you to fix that in less than an hour.

I personally prefer Lee, but the Lyman bottom pour is an excellent pot with the option of “pressure casting” using the Lyman pressure casting method and Lyman molds together very well.

Gary ( retired casting analyst )

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Pigslayer posted this 22 July 2013

For the money, I have to stick with LEE I've had my 10# bottom pour for 13 years. Have cast thousands of bullets & only this year replaced the heating element. Cost: about $10.00 & about 45 min. work, which included a thorough cleaning of the pot which it needed anyway. I was never bothered by the drips now & then. I keep a screwdriver on the bench & if it drips I just turn the rod back & forth & it stops. I'm just casting bullets . . . I'm not building a piano. I smelt in a Cast iron pot & use clean lead in my LEE. If my LEE EVER gives up the ghost I'll buy the LEE 20 pounder . . . maybe.

Pat

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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JSH posted this 23 July 2013

I see mentioned to lube the lee 4-20. Some one explain a bit more and I will try it. I guess I can't grasp where it would do and good. A thin piece o sheet metal shaped like >. A hole in the bottom that slides on the spout and one on the top that slides on a shouldered screw. Seems to me it would scrape off all the lube in short order. A bit more bearing surface would be some what better I would think. Jeff

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delmarskid1 posted this 23 July 2013

I use the RCBS the most. I've had it over ten years. I've had alloy up over 800 degrees at times casting plain lead. I also have a Lee 20 in a dip pot. This works well. I don't have any problems with temps running all over the place. I started casting with hot plates and camp gas stoves. I got great bullets from them as well.

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onondaga posted this 23 July 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2923>JSH

The operating rod for the valve shaped like >  has 5 holes in it plus the screw holding on the wooden operating handle.

 The 2 bottom holes are cleaned and lubed to slide easily on the lower mounting screw bearing shaft and on the pour spout body. These get squeaky and don't move smoothly if I don't keep them clean and lubed.

The 3 upper holes: one is threaded and holds the flow adjusting screw, one floats around the valve rod and the last floats around the upper mounting screw shaft. The adjusting screw and threaded hole is cleaned and lubed so it will operate easily to make adjustments as the pot level goes down. The valve pin hole and valve pin are kept clean and lubed to allow easy rotating of the valve pin  to clear debris in the valve during operation and clear the valve if dripping begins. These will all get squeaky, bind and not operate freely if they are not taken care of and cleaned and lubed.

The bearing surfaces are designed small and simple for low friction and easy operation, but keeping them clean and lubed is important for my heavy use. Yours will eventually need cleaning and lube when it gets squeaky or doesn't operate smoothly.

I'm not a casual caster and cast 100 pounds of bullets a year, This is basic maintenance to keep my pot operating smoothly throughout the years.

A number of posts have described adding weight to this > shaped part to make the valve stop dripping, I have never done that because I keep mine clean and lubed and I maintain the fit of the valve point to its mating surface with care too. I rarely get dripping, easily stop dripping with a turn of the valve rod and my valve operates smoothly.

I clean the related parts with a small toothbrush like brass brush and lube with high heat never seize grease or with clear silicone dielectric grease and a very small brush. I clean lead splatter when hot or will lightly pin-flame splatter and brush it off with the brass brush.

Gary

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dodgyrog posted this 25 September 2013

"Lyman makes a good pot but their customer service is not nearly as good as RCBS and Lee, in my experience." Absolutely my experience - stick with RCBS

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John Grantham posted this 26 September 2013

Magma Engineering--- Without reservation---- The best pot out there. Pretty pricey but worth it.

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4060may posted this 26 September 2013

Waage dipper pot, I have 2 Lyman's and a 20# LEE the buzzing and clicking is a bit loud, even being deaf, the Waage is the one I use most

not listed on the web site, a call is required

the part no. is 4757 http://www.waage.com/

1-800-922-4365

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Pigslayer posted this 26 September 2013

I still say that for the money you can't beat a LEE pot . . . Hands down. Hook it up to a PID and it's smooth sailing. I've had my 10 lb. LEE for 12 years now and it's cranked out thousands of bullets along with smelting many, many ingots. My only investment other than the cost of the pot . . . A $10.00 element! Nuff said.

Pat

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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RDUPRAZ posted this 26 September 2013

Like 4060may, I have had a Waage 20# dipper that has been in use for 10-12 yrs. I replaced an old Lee that wouldn't quit dipping and another new Lee that would not heat over 700 degrees. The new one went back and the Waage took it's place.

The Waage holds the temp within a few degrees and it can be adjusted easily. However I do use an old lee 5# just to keep my molds up to temp when there is a little Makers Mark handy.

Probably will outlast me.

RD

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