A day at the range

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loophole posted this 4 weeks ago

I spent all day at the range bruising my shoulder and clanging steel targets with my old H&R officer's model trap door.  Duplex load FFg over 5744, homemade lube, 350 and 385 gr bullets, cast 40-1 and 25-1.  Cleaned one time to see if the soft bullets left any lead in the bbl--tiny flecks, pushed out with a wet patch. I love the rifle, and it is more pleasant than with 405 and 450 gr bullets, but I'm really anxious to get my 44-1/2 32-40 bbl from CPA.

Loophole

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Ross Smith posted this 4 weeks ago

Loophole: Do you use magnum primers? That's what I do to get the ffg going, seems to work. At least the recoil is more sharp from my trapdoor.

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loophole posted this 4 weeks ago

I use both WLR and Fed LR magnum.  I think the magnum primers may be more accurate in a match rifle, but I can't tell much difference in a lighter rifle at shorter ranges.  Remember the 5744 ignites very easily with WLR primers, so you don't need a hotter primer as you do with straight black. 

I remembered when I finished tumbling the pile of cases from yesterday that after I  deprimed them, soaked them in soapy water overnight then rinsed them thoroughly they do not need brushing on the inside, like I have to do with straight black loads.  the cases are much cleaner with the duplex loads, including the primer pocket.  

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Redleged posted this 4 weeks ago

Hi. What are you using as a % for your 5744 to FFg? I’ve heard anywhere from 6 - 10% of the charge should be the smokeless (e.g. @10%, if your total is 55gr, then 5 gr 5744 and 50gr FFg.) Thanks, Ed

Growing old is mandatory, growing up, however, is totally optional!

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loophole posted this 4 weeks ago

I use 5 gr 5744 under 65 gr FFg. with a 350 gr bullet. I would use 55 gr FFg--sort of the old cavalry load to keep down recoil, but I do not want to use fillers and it takes 65 gr  black with a .030" cardboard wad to give me the compression I want in a Starline case.  The old cavalry load used a 405 gr bullet which was long enough to fill the case after the powder was compressed with no filler. I have just started casting the 350 bullets with a NOE mold.

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Brodie posted this 4 weeks ago

Loophole,  I have a newbie question;  Do you weigh your Black Powder charges or are they measured by volume?  I ask because all the info I have seen says that BP needs to be measured by volume which I have done for all my muzzle loading shooting, but BP cartridge I think in terms of smokeless and how we load that.  I am hoping that you can clear up my conundrum.  Thanks.

B.E.Brickey

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loophole posted this 4 weeks ago

Brody, many much better shooters than myself disagree but I never weigh black powder charges.  Years ago I was a fairly competitive muzzle loader shooter and some of the best carefully weighed each charge.  I tried it, and found that I could not tell any difference between weighed charges and charges thrown with a measure.  The debate rages on the Shiloh forum among black powder cartridge shooters.  I never shot enough at longer ranges to comment but with my heavy Italian 45-70 Sharps and my Shiloh 40-65 I regularly shot less than MOA groups at out to 200 yards with iron sights off a bench.  You probably already know, but some newer shoots may need to be reminded that a black powder charge usually refers to a given volumn of powder, not that weight.  If you want 70 grs of Black, use a measure to determine 70 grs volumn, then weigh that charge to determine weight.  It usually will not weigh 70 grs. 

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Brodie posted this 4 weeks ago

Loophole,  Thank You.  That is what I had planned to do if I ever get to doing BPCR .   With the current cost of rifles and loading equipment I may not manage that, but I am working towards it.

B.E.Brickey

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loophole posted this 4 weeks ago

Good luck.  If you want to get started fairly inexpensively find a good used mod 336 or mod 94 in 30-30 or a Marlin 45-70.  A 44 mag rifle makes a great mini buffalo gun when you load the cartridges with Black.  There is no additional loading equiptment really necessary except a measure you can make out of an old cartridge case.  I often use a neck expander die to compress the black powder charge.  Often you don't even need sizing dies because the unsized cases can be reloaded and fired with fair accuracy one at a time.  I buy Black by the case from Coonies and love the smoke and smell.   

Loophole

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M3 Mitch posted this 4 weeks ago

As I understand it, most competitive (jacketed bullet) bench rest shooters load by volume from a measure, they don't weigh individual charges.  They do tend to gravitate towards ball powders and other powders that measure well.

Someone could load say 5 to 10 rounds with a "nominal" charge, then 5-10 with half a grain or one grain under, same one grain over, and see if they don't shoot into essentially the same group.

Have known several guys who hunted with various bigger Magnum rifle rounds, loading them with long-grain IMR type powders, they would weigh every charge.  Me, I figure if this gives them more confidence, it's not going to hurt anything so I just shut up about it.  But I doubt these rounds are any more accurate than what a good volume measure, particularly a Belding and Mull, can do.

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Brodie posted this 4 weeks ago

Mitch,  I agree with you.  The only need to weigh every charge is if you are loading way too close to the upper pressure limit.  If that is the case you are loading way too hot.

I will load five rounds and weigh the fifth charge just as a check to see if it has changed.  Some powders will drop different weights as the level in the measure changes.  Again that isn't much of a factor unless you are loading a whole lot of ammunition.  Me I just check out of habit.

B.E.Brickey

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John Alexander posted this 4 weeks ago

Yes, the JB benchrest shooters apparently quit weighing their powder charged a long time ago for shooting the sub quarter-minute groups.  Somehow forty years or more after they came to this conclusion the belief holds that cast bullet require weighed powder charges for serious accuracy.  Makes you think or ought to.

John

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RicinYakima posted this 4 weeks ago

The only cravat to that is that they use fine grain ball powders, and if you are using SR4759, you had better be weighting. JUST TO CHECK YOU DON'T HAVE BRIDGEING IN THE MEASURE. Anyone who has used it will tell you the same thing.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 4 weeks ago

the belding y mull VISIBLE  powder measure shows you each charge in the little tube before you dump it in the case.  and it is old-timey, too .  just sayin ...

ken

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loophole posted this 4 weeks ago

I throw 5744 in my duplex loads with my Redding measure, weighing from time to time to double check the 5477, but in a duplex load even a small variation will be obvious after the black is added, and even a double charge of 5744 would not be a dangerous over charge because you could not fit all the black in the case.

Loophole

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mashburn posted this 4 weeks ago

Be careful. Some powders and some cartridges can get squirrely in a hurry. Most of my loading over the last 50 years or so has dealt mostly with jacketed rifle loads. The 30-30 and .225 Winchester cartridges are two cartridges that can have the pressures jump sky high. Winchester 231 can get squirrley in a hurry also. I used to load several thousand prairie dog rounds and would weigh one out of ever ten rounds. Again, like someone on the discussion stated, it depends a lot on the powder. Be safe and weigh one once in a while even though you are loading very light loads. Body parts are pretty hard to replace .When I was in high school back in the early days, my shop teacher had a warning sign above the jointer. It read ,A Fool And his Fingers are Soon Parted. Be carful and happy shooting for the rest of your life.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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John Alexander posted this 4 weeks ago

"even though you are loading very light loads."

ESPECIALLY if you are loading very light loads. Double and triple charges can be as bad as bit extra in a full charge load.

John

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mashburn posted this 4 weeks ago

John,

Amen to your statement.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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