A little deeper in the well

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  • Last Post 01 March 2019
tlkeizer posted this 26 February 2019

Greetings,

Well, for a guy who wrote in his own notes he probably would not pursue cast bullet shooting in his .308, I have proved myself mistaken.  I cast some bullets with a borrowed .30 caliber mold, Lee 170 grain, about 450.  Finally I got the .309 sizer and a top punch, and loaded up initial rounds to try down by the lake (no fish in it, darn it).  What I loaded was 5 each with 24 grains IMR 4227 and Accurate 5744, both loads were pretty much in the middle of the load range for the two powders in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.  Cases were LC, CCI 200 primers, SPG lube applied with the lubrisizer and gas checks.  My thought was if one showed more promise than the other, I would concentrate on that powder in future loads.  Here are the initial results at 50 yards (didn't feel like walking out a hundred yard).

     4227:  Lateral 3.56 inches     Vertical 3.72 inches      CEP 4.55 inches

     5744:  Lateral 2.14 inches      Vertical 0.90 inches      CEP 2.14 inches

                 I had one outlier, it added an inch to Lateral and CEP measurement.

With this as a start, I might even be able to hit the silly groundhog this spring.  Anyway, starting on a new cast bullet venture easier on my shoulder than the 45-70.  Later I plan on getting a mold for the 25-06.

TK

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R. Dupraz posted this 26 February 2019

Terry

Try 16-19 gns. of IMR 4227 with that bullet weight

No experience with 5744

R.

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Scearcy posted this 26 February 2019

Terry

Reduce the 5744 load also. 20 gr +/-. If you have 4198 try 18.5 gr.

Most 308s respond quickly to load development. 

.309 might be small also.

Jim

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David Reiss posted this 26 February 2019

Glad to see you on this venture. Of the dozens of rifles I own, I have never had a .308. Seems very odd to me, but I have had my own ventures. However I have corrected this fault. I have on the way a CZ-550 in .308. Since they discontinued the 550 (which makes me sick), I have looked to add a few more to my collection before they get so high I can't afford them. I also have a 6.5X55 coming to join my other 550s in .308, 9.3X62 & 7X57, but that is another venture. 

So I will be carefully be watching your posts. Since I must of missed it, what rifle are you using?

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
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tlkeizer posted this 26 February 2019

Greetings,

Sorry, did not list the rifle.  I am using my Savage 99, scoped with Nikon 4X12. 

To me it is interesting that both the 4227 and 5744 loads recommended to try above are below the starting loads in my Lyman book.  I also have 4198, so in a couple weeks after the weather allows for more time at the range I may compare most of the loads.  If I do, I will post photos of the results now that I have figured out how to pull the pictures from my library.

TK

 

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RicinYakima posted this 26 February 2019

Lyman has a start load that is a percentage of the maximum load they can shoot with Lyman #2 alloy. It has no other criteria, so it will not stick in the barrel and Lyman is happy. You just got advice from about 100 years of shooting, so you may wish to rethink the "minimum" load. FWIW, Ric

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tlkeizer posted this 26 February 2019

Greetings,

Ricin Yakima, I had  planned on trying loads listed above.  I just thought Lyman's lawyers were playing it safe, and found it interesting comparing the data to the book.  I loaded the rounds earlier today so the minimums in the Lyman book were still fresh in my mind because of the starting and ending differences for charges.  I also called Lyman once asking about why a heavier load was listed for a heavier bullet in a particular instance, and got a very political answer on basically there are a lot of variables, etc, etc, etc.  I have a .243 load listing for 55 grain hollow point that is no longer in any book, but has accounted for hundreds and hundreds of prairie dogs that my father shot; everything now is a heavier charge.  Of course, some books list "do not go below minimum listed load", then say to "reduce charge if using military brass".  Reducing must not be going below.  I did not know the start load is a percentage of the maximum load for Lyman #2 alloy, thank you for the insight.  I appreciate your comments.  Please know that if my comments seem ascerbic they are not intended to be so.

TK

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 26 February 2019

about asking modern companies for technical advice ... today those positions are filled with sons-in-laws of corporate executives .... with degrees in advertising and propaganda ... " tell'em what they wanna hear " ...

********

when i wuz a kid, i wrote lyman and asked a dumb question ... i got a nice long letter back from guy loverin hisself ...  meant a lot to a young farm boy, and convinced me that there are nice people out there ... 

bet there are some nice guys still at lyman ... they just don't lettum answer the phone ...

ken

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Scearcy posted this 26 February 2019

TK

No question here that your intentions are the best. Anyone who shoots groundhogs with a 45-70 is OK!  

If you decide you want heavier loads in your 308 look to 4895 or VV135.

Jim

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tlkeizer posted this 01 March 2019

Greetings,

Went out to compare 5 loads with 5744, I will try 4227 later after I get back from a trip.  I shot 18-26 grains in 2 grain increments, the 20 grain load did the best.  My 24 grain load was pretty much the worst, not nearly as good as the photo above.  Interesting that is shot well one day and not another, may have to adjust the shooter.  My 3 best groups for first time dedicated to finding a "good" load are included below.

 

 

Sorry about two of the same image.  Tried to remove the second but to no avail.

TK

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JeffinNZ posted this 01 March 2019

Is it my imagination or do some of those holes look a shade oval?

Cheers from New Zealand

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Scearcy posted this 01 March 2019

TK

You are going to be hard on the groundhogs next time out.

That is fun with a Savage 99.

Jim

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tlkeizer posted this 01 March 2019

Greetings,

JeffinNZ, In the top photo, the 20 grain load, the bottom hole that is elongated is from 2 rounds overlapping, the next two above it are almost overlapping.  In the bottom photo some look slightly oval in the photo, but were more round "live".  I had to hold the camera somewhat askew so as not to block the light coming in the window, using a flash caused too much wash out of the image.  Also, some of the paper was backed by the cardboard box, some of the paper had no immediate backing due to the box lid folding and a lot of holes in the box from previous range outings.  So far the bullets have not tumbled, at least not out to fifty yards.  100 and 200 yards may tell a different story.  I have noticed a difference in the holes caused by paper with cardboard right behind it and paper with air space behind it.  I may have to use a new box when firing for record as the holes are much nicer with solid backing.

TK

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