Alloy / Lube for 223 Rem

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Squid Boy posted this 3 weeks ago

I have been asked by Peter who posted before under the thread "Reloading powder"  to post his information about his rifle and ask for further help regarding bullet alloys and lubes he could try. He is shooting a Howa rifle in 223 Rem with a 24-inch barrel. He has a NOE 225-72 RNGC mold and is looking for velocities at or above 2,500 fps with this combination. I can help him with the powders he has available in Belgium but I am out of my league with little cast bullets going fast. I know many of you have been around this bend before and hope you can help. Thanks, Squid Boy

"Squid Pro Quo"

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John Alexander posted this 3 weeks ago

Peter,

If your are interested in good accuracy (< 1.5 moa average for 5-shot groups) you will find it much easier with loads producing between 1,400 and 1,900 fps. 

2,500 fps for a 70 grain bullet is near a maximum jacketed bullet load in the 223 and very difficult achieve with accuracy with cast bullets -- maybe impossible in a factory chamber and 24 inch barrel. If you do try for high velocity, you must use powders with burn rates similar to those used for the maximum jacketed loads

If you want to shoot at velocities over 1,800 fps or so You should FORGET our recent discussions about fast powders. The 5 grain load you mentioned will produce about 1.400fps. with your bullet.  Trying to use fast burning powders such as TiteGroup, Bullseye, etc. for high velocity loads WILL LEAD TO DISASTER.

Others on this forum can give you advice based on experience about trying for high velocity cast bullet loads.

If you decide to work with velocities under 1.900fps. I can help.

John

 

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makpeter posted this 3 weeks ago

Hello John,

I just read your post and for me not so important the velocity up or under 2500f/s i want to shoot as accurate as possible if that is staing under 1900f/s so no problem.

I would like to know is how fast a lead alloy cast bullet can go just so i know, when the leading starts 
Better to lub or powder paint cast bullets?
 
Today i have been pouring my first batch of ingots in plain lead and scrap linotype i also have lyman #2 so i can mix.
 Would like to know what is the best alloy mix for speeds up to 1900f/s
 

And the second priorety is powder, now i have Vihtavuori N135, Lovex D036, Lovex D073.4, some Ramshot TAC, and 1pound of Titegroup at home

Ramshot and titegroup ar very hard to find here restrictions i don't know al the dealer stop importing

Like i told before that is the main issue and in the Lyman 48th edition or elsewhere can find only data for 55 grain bullet

 

Greetings

Peter

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BudHyett posted this 3 weeks ago

I would like to know is how fast a lead alloy cast bullet can go just so I know: Empirical testing results, I’ve shot a lot of 6mm BR with monotype alloy to 2500 feet-per-second without leading, that was using Gray’s #24 and LBT Blue for lubricant. Accuracy was two minute-of-angle, decreasing as I was going from one minute-of-angle at 1900 feet-per-second.

 Better to lube or powder paint cast bullets? – Lubricant, and a high-speed lubricant. The NRA/Alox recipe is good for finest accuracy to 1700/1800 feet-per-second in my experience. I am not a fan of powder coating, I think over the long term the residue of powder coat will fill the edges of the grooves and prematurely take away the accuracy of a barrel, This residue is hard to take out of the corners and the  

 

 Today I have been pouring my first batch of ingots in plain lead and scrap linotype. I also have Lyman #2 so I can mix. – The term “scrap linotype” covers a wide area. The greatest benefit is the tin for alloying and making the alloy free flowing. You can water quench this alloy to gain greater hardness, I have sometimes done that.

 

 Can you set up to melt a large pot of alloy assuring a homogeneous alloy mix that becomes a constant? I lucked into an old cast iron kettle that takes up to 140 pounds of alloy and that is poured out into ingots to take one more variable out of the quest each season.

 

 Would like to know what the best alloy mix for speeds is up to 1900 f/s: Linotype is the easiest answer, your scrap linotype should be okay. Again, water-quenching might be a path to follow. Be very careful throwing any water quenched bullets back in the pot.

 

 And the second priority is powder, now I have VihtaVuori N135, Lovex D036, Lovex D073.4, some Ramshot TAC, and 1pound of TiteGroup at home. – I am a fan of VihtaVuori powders and have no experience with the Lovex powders. The VihtaVuori website gives starting loads for N135 with heavier bullets, you can start with these loads reduced and work back up to the accuracy and velocities you are seeking. https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/?cartridge=7

Country boy from Western Illinois, living in the Magical Pacific Northwest

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John Alexander posted this 3 weeks ago

 

I just read your post and for me not so important the velocity up or under 2500f/s i want to shoot as accurate as possible if that is staing under 1900f/s so no problem.

I would like to know is how fast a lead alloy cast bullet can go just so i know, when the leading starts
=====================
As Bud said, Monotype or other hard alloys are needed for jacketed bullet velocities.
However, most leading is from imperfect bullet fit in throat and soft alloys are
more likely than hard to make up for poor fit by upsetting on ignition and sealing
bore. In other words,hard may lead worse than soft.

For under 1.900 fps. linotype or #2 should work with most powders. Even softer
alloys down to 25:1 may work best at slow end of range (that is what I am currently
using in matches and 5.5 gr.TiteGroup with good accuracy.)
===================
Better to lub or powder paint cast bullets?
========================
We don't know how to powder coat for consistent top accuracy yet.
=================
Would like to know what is the best alloy mix for speeds up to 1900f/s
=========================
I would try your #2 first.
=============
And the second priorety is powder, now i have Vihtavuori N135, Lovex D036, Lovex D073.4, some Ramshot TAC, and 1pound of Titegroup at
home
Ramshot and titegroup ar very hard to find here restrictions i don't know al the dealer stop importing
================

My experience with the 70 grain bullet in 223 for low end of 1.400 -1.900 fps range I have had good luck with fast burn powders like 700x, TiteGroup, etc. 5 to 7 grains (start at low end).  For the upper end of that range 6 to 9 grains of the somewhat slower Blue Dot, 5744, 4227, etc. [ according to the table of burn rated by LHS Germany similar burn rates of Lovex powders would be DO32 or SO30 for TiteGroup group and DO37.2, SO40,DO60 for the 5744 group]

Always start at low end of recommended range and work up.

The Lovex, VVn135, and Ramshot powers you now have would be  better used  when you start trying for jacketed bullet speeds.

Sorry for the funky format.

John

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