Cleaning Between Every Shot

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  • Last Post 03 April 2018
OU812 posted this 24 March 2018

Has anyone ever tried cleaning barrel between every shot in competition with smokeless powder loads. One wet patch followed with two dry patches. When shooting for group or score would it be possible or would you have enough time? I believe I could shoot 5 shots and clean between each within 15 minutes.

I remember cleaning my Browning BPCR 45-70 between every shot to remove hard black powder fouling. Gun was very accurate if I cleaned and dried barrel between every shot

This would be an interesting test of zero fouling. The 45-45-10 tumble lube should work good.

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Pentz posted this 24 March 2018

Gee, that would mean quite a few "foulers" for each record shot.  I usually clean after each 10-round string, but I've been using 4759.  I like to use Seafoam for the carbon residue.

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John Carlson posted this 25 March 2018

I have tried just running a dry patch through between shots.  Can't say I could identify any difference good or bad.  I've seen black powder shooters run a bore snake through between every shot but then they live in a different world.

John Carlson. CBA Director of Military Competition.

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RicinYakima posted this 25 March 2018

PM with address for 20 year old article on cleaning I wrote with Joe Gifford for the Fouling Shot.

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porthos posted this 25 March 2018

Pentz: instead of cleaning after 10 shots; keep shooting. you might be surprised that the rifle still shoots well. try it and let us know. if you told a handgun shooter that you clean every 10 shots; you would get some funny looks.

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 25 March 2018

I don't think there is time in a match to clean after each shot. Matches are 10 minutes, for score or group 5 shots and 15 minutes for 10 shots.

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Bud Hyett posted this 25 March 2018

Thoughts

  • Cleaning after each shot will give a constant bore condition.
  • Dry-patching after each shot will give a constant bore condition.
  • Both steps above are time-consuming when you have a timed match. 
  • One of the stated reasons for using a gascheck is to get a constant bore condition.

At Windhill, Ed Doonan and I found lead scrapings between the gascheck and the bullet in the gascheck shank groove. This is visible evidence the leading edge of the gascheck is scraping the bore and leaving a constant condition from shot to shot. We were shooting at 200 yards into a backstop of boxelder logs that saved the bullet that we could then examine. This observation also lead to the thought the gascheck was scraping any excess lube left in the barrel. 

With modern lubes, the residue is thin and the same residue amount in the bore from shot to shot. The bore condition is black in the sense you can see fouling in the bore. The question is that the fouling is the same which is not measurable without very sophisticated laboratory equipment. I believe the bore condition is close enough to being the same given  use of a gascheck and a modern lube.

At a two-day match, I take extra ammunition for fouling the bore after cleaning at the end of the first day. This is for specific rifles which testing has shown need this care.  

I believe you can over-lubricate and use too much lube. I have duplicated the experience of Tom Gray and his explanation of a lube-purge shot. This is for specific rifles. Each rifle is a law unto itself. As an illustration, my BSA Martini Mark III will not shoot well after cleaning until twenty-five shots are down the bore; my Mark i will shoot well after five shots to foul the bore. . 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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John Alexander posted this 25 March 2018

I shoot long strings of five shot groups at one range session without cleaning to see when groups started to grow.  You need to keep shooting when the first larger group appears or you will jump to a false conclusion as they sometime get better after one or two larger groups. Fatigue can also result in bigger groups, of course, and fool a shooter into cleaning sooner than necessary

Before last year's nationals that test clearly indicated that I needed to clean before shooting 20 25 shots so I cleaned after every ten record shots.

The test above sometimes shows that the groups don't grow at all.  I, and others, have had load combinations that shot the same without cleaning for a whole season of several thousand rounds.  I wish I knew how to duplicate that at will - but haven't in several years.

Some shooters have been known to shoot the whole day at the CBA nationals (100+ shots including foulers and sighters) without cleaning or even both days -- and winning their class.

We don't know nearly as much about fouling/cleaning as we should.

John 

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John Alexander posted this 25 March 2018

Come on Ric, some of the rest of us would like to read that cleaning article.

John

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OU812 posted this 25 March 2018

When shooting black powder I tried using a blow tube to soften hard fouling, but nothing worked better than cleaning between every shot.

I will do a test and time how long it takes to shoot 5 and clean. All shots will be fired thru a dry clean barrel. I know oiling the barrel before hand will sometimes cause a really wild flier on first shot...so no oil will be used.

Using a water based solvent such as M-Pro 7 may work better at conditioning barrel than traditional more slippery Hoppes #9 type solvents. Too slippery is not good...I think.

Maybe using zero lube will work better than 45-45-10 tumble lube. Or maybe a little SPG black powder lube will work?

 

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RicinYakima posted this 25 March 2018

John,

It was published in The Fouling Shot, or Cast Bullet Journal. You can look at back issues or I will send one to you electronically. When I started writing 20+ years ago, people would scan my work and plaster it all over the net. Or worse, cut and paste and say it was theirs. I give the CBA the right to publish but no one else.

It should be some time just after June 2002. I was the second or third of the "Me and Joe" reloading series.

Not being mean spirited, but a lot of time and work goes into writing.

Ric

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RicinYakima posted this 25 March 2018

"Some shooters have been known to shoot the whole day at the CBA nationals (100+ shots including foulers and sighters) without cleaning or even both days -- and winning their class."

Scott Merchant and I both shot the 2006 military season, postal and Nationals, with our Springfields with one dry patch at the end of the day and one dry patch the next time we shot the rifles. We were both using a lot more lube on the bullets than we do today, but we also shoot more foulers than is common today. A warm greasy bore is not a bad think if you know how to get it that way and keep it. p.s. I won the scoped class and he won the modified iron sight class at Nationals that year. FWIW 

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John Carlson posted this 26 March 2018

My 4 groove Smith Corona 03 gets one patch with KG2 followed by one dry patch after each session.  It usually starts right out shooting good the next time out.

The same cleaning of my 2 groove Remington 03 results in poor groups for 10, 20, or sometimes more shots until whenever it decides to settle down.

Like some other things most of us keep around the house, they don't all like to be treated the same.

John Carlson. CBA Director of Military Competition.

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OU812 posted this 31 March 2018

I tried cleaning between every shot and learned it is too much trouble.  I could see flakes of lead as I pushed the patch from muzzle. Although those were the best groups fired that day, all groups were poor.

I wonder if using a grease cookie on first shot would season the bore good before shooting for group.

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RicinYakima posted this 01 April 2018

FWIW, my investigation says that flakes on the patch are most likely from the lube/sizer die that is trapped in the lube. They are not coming off the bullet during the firing. Found that out trying to salvage 100 beautiful and weighted match bullets I sized too small, and didn't want the lube in the pot. Heated in a pan and the bullets removed, the lube was full of fine lead flakes.

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delmarskid posted this 03 April 2018

I've been known to shoot the whole year without cleaning the bore. After a good cleaning the groups were about the same. I don't shoot bench rest but I do try to shoot well. Gas checks do a lot to keep the bore consistent I think.

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