Gallery loads and flash hole drilling

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Duke M posted this 04 June 2017

Not wanting to divert another thread I started this one to pursue this topic a bit more in depth. Having just finished the Ground Hog postal match, which required plain base bullets and was shot at 50 yards, I was pleased with the results from my "gallery" load. I chose to use 6.0 gr. of Trail Boss in a 30-06 for three reasons.

1.Mr. Harris' use of 6 gr. of Bullseye in gallery loads.

2.This bulky powder filled a lot more of the case.                                                                                                              

3.I hoped the peaky pressure curve of Trail Boss would help avoid the primer pushing the case forward and setting        the shoulder back.

As with a lot of my shooting/reloading friends, I tend to over think things and worry about minutiae. Do I really need to segregate my brass and drill out the flash holes? How many shots are typically fired before head space problems rear their ugly head? (pun intended) Does using pistol problems minimize or exacerbate the problem?

Lastly, at what point do the relatively mild loads, (16 gr. of 4227, 2400, 4759, 5744) become "gallery" loads?

Thanks, 

Duke

 

 

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Ed Harris posted this 04 June 2017

I think this subject lends itself to a controlled experiment, which would make a GREAT Fouling Shot article, if you are able to reload and test-fire at the range.

I'd take a group of five cases each, standard vs. drilled flash holes, neck size only and fire 4-5 sequential groups with your Trail Boss load.  If you like you could have additional series for each powder of interest.  I could easily see a 4x4 factorial experiment forming if you wanted to get serious and do the work, but a simple series with one load, reloading one set each standard and drilled flash hole 5 times may tell you what you want to know.

I could take an educated guess as to what I "might expect," but I don't want to spoil the fun...

It WILL make a difference if the rifle used is a "push-feeder" like a Remington vs. a "controlled" feeder like an '03 Springfield, old Winchester 54, Model 70 or Mauser.  When the extractor hook clearance from the bolt face is close, rounds can actually headspace on the extractor and the body-shortening is self-limiting.

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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John F. posted this 04 June 2017

 Great information about  the difference between controlled round vs. push-feed actions and headspacing off the extractor!

I had known about headspacing off the extractor, but never put 2 and 2 together to realize it could be a factor with mild cast loads, or to mentally differentiate between the two action types in that context!  Well done!

John

 

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Duke M posted this 04 June 2017

Great suggestion Ed. As a matter of fact, I am fortunate enough to be able to load at the bench here at the Thorn Hollow Ballistic Research Facility. I also don't mind writing an article. I'm headed to the big city tomorrow and I will procure the appropriate drill bit. I'll bet I can get Longhunter to assist in these experiments.

 

Duke

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Larry Gibson posted this 05 June 2017

 

I shoot many thousands of squib loads in various calibers but mostly in .30s. Many of these are rimless cartridges; 30-06, .308, .308 CBC, 7.65, 7.62x39 etc. The squib loads I shoot most often is a Lee 314-90-SWC-TL over 2.7 to 3.2 gr of Bullseye depending on the cartridge. Velocity is around 800 – 875 fps. I found a long time ago the shoulders do in fact get set back with light loads such as those. With many cast loads that use normal weight bullets in the 1600 to 2000 fps range there was little setback. It basically is a matter of the psi the load generates.  It takes roughly 7,000 psi (depends on thickness and hardness of the brass along with how much the case needs to reach the chamber walls.

 

 

 

Measurements of shoulder set back or increase are easily taken with a Stoney Point tool. There have been basically the two theories regarding the cause; the firing pin blow theory and the primer theory. I ran the same tests with a fire formed case and inert primers; headspace was not changed. I then used the same fire formed case with live primers. In as little as two firings there was a measurable decrease in headspace. After five live primers the fired primer was noticeably backed out after firing. NOTE: this increase in headspace was with case taking LR primers. I never experience the problem with the .222  Rem or the 5.56 Nato.

 

 

 

Using #d drills I gradually increased the flash hole diameter with a progressively larger drill. Using a different fire formed case with each larger drill and firing 5 primers I then measured the headspace before firing and after. As the size of the flash hole increased the headspace decrease lessoned. With a # 29 drill I no longer got any decrease in headspace.  I dedicated five .308 cases and five 30-06 cases that were well fire formed to their respective rifles chambers and drilled the flash holes with the #29 drill. Over the next few days I fired 50 shots with each case. There was an indoor 50” range where I was stationed so it wasn’t all that bad.  After the 50 firings there was negligible change in headspace with any of the five cases of each cartridge. The results of my test firmly demonstrated to me that it was the force of the primer explosion that drove the case forward and set back the shoulder. The squib load does not have the pressure to expand the case out to fit the chamber. By drilling out the flash hole the force of the explosion mostly went directly into the case as there is little rim left to contain it. Two other side benefits that were unforeseen; the extreme spread and standard deviations of the velocity readings improved and the case position sensitivity of the small charge was greatly reduced.

 

 

 

As a result of the above tests I dedicated fire formed cases for squib loads for each rifle in rimless cases and drill out the flash holes. I have fired them many, many times now with no further change in headspace. Besides the squib load mentioned I also use 311631 (# may be wrong but it’s the 118 gr GC 32-20 bullet) with Unique in the above cartridges loaded to 1400 fps or so for a little more powerful small game load. The flash hole drilled cases work just fine for those. I now use the flash ole drilled cases for all my rimless cartridges with squib and really light loads.

 

 

 

Larry Gibson

 

 

 

Further  pressure testing in the .308W the last few years indicated that loads with a psi above 12,000 will obdurate sufficiently to prevent the primer from driving the case forward thus setting the shoulder back.    

 

Concealment is not cover.........

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 05 June 2017

thanks larry ... great stuff !!

ken

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John Carlson posted this 06 June 2017

Very interesting and useful information.  I have heard of flash hole drilling before but was not aware of this reasoning, thought it was about uniform powder ignition.  I have read that cases with enlarged flash holes should not be used for full power/jacketed bullet loads.  Any truth to that?

John Carlson. CBA Director of Military Competition.

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R. Dupraz posted this 06 June 2017

Once upon a time I drilled the flash holes in 38 special cases oversize and loaded them with wax bullets and just the primer. Shot them in the basement. Worked just fine in a K-38 but don't remember how far out I went. Still have a box of those bullets somewhere, I think.  

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Ed Harris posted this 06 June 2017

Thanks Larry!  Having the pressure data is VERY helpful.

John,  Firing standard pressure .38 Special or .45 ACP loads with Bullseye powder in large flash hole cases does no harm.

I would AVOID doing so in rifle cases where the pressure is likely to exceed 20,000 psi.

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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John Carlson posted this 07 June 2017

Thanks Ed, I have a Smith Corona 03-A3 that exhibits some primer protrusion after firing but it seems to be staying consistent through five firings.  Guess I'll have to dedicate a batch of brass for testing to see if 1 I can stop the shoulder set back and 2 to see if it helps with accuracy.  

John Carlson. CBA Director of Military Competition.

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Duke M posted this 07 June 2017

Thanks Larry, I will not reinvent the wheel but will learn from your experience.

 

Duke

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