Heavy Hunting Bullets In 30-30 Win.

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Last Post 10 November 2019

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mashburn posted this 04 July 2019

As I've stated several times before, I'm a old gun builder, hunter and have reloaded for over 50 years. But my reloading other than handguns has been mostly with jacketed bullets. My interests have changed and I'm into cast rifle bullets, mostly from the hunting aspect. I don't claim to be a great white hunter but I've killed more than my share of Deer and I have killed deer with more different calibers than most people have ever thought about. However when I face a new challenge I'm not afraid to ask for advice. My question is: how heavy of a bullet can you shoot in a 30-30 Win and get good dependable accuracy, I'm not talking about little plinking loads, I'm talking about hunting loads. When I'm loading cast hunting rounds I always use GC's.

The forum has been pretty slow here lately so lets hear from some of you people who have much more experience than I do and get some activity going..I've read All of The Famous Frank's advice so I think I'm probably on the right track

Mashburn.

David a. Cogburn

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RicinYakima posted this 04 July 2019

Two issues with 30/30: short throat and 1/12 twist. While I can shoot 210 grain 311284 from my Savage 99, it doesn't work with lever guns. One of my gunny friends uses the RCBS 180 grain FP with either 2/2 (tin and antimony) or 16/1 tin and gets good expansion with full loads of 3031 or 4895. FWIW

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mashburn posted this 04 July 2019

Hello RiicinYakima

Thanks for the response and info. I figured that I would be faced with that problem. I have purchased 170 & a180 gr. GC molds. I would like to find a 200 gr mold that will work if possible. I've had good luck with RL7 powder in .375 caliber cast lead. In his writings Frank gives a lot of loading info for this type of cartridge and rifle.Thanks for the alloy information also.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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lotech posted this 04 July 2019

I haven't had a .30-30 in a long time, but I used to use the RCBS 30-180 FN mould to make 190 grain bullets (wheelweight alloy). I bought the mould more than thirty years ago and bullets were quite accurate, sized at .310" or .311". This bullet also shot very well in other .30 caliber rifles.

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Ed Harris posted this 04 July 2019

I used the RCBS 30-180FN cast from ww+2% tin, which weighed 188 grains lubed and gaschecked. Loading 36 grs. of W760 or 30 grs. of W748 or IMR4064 performance approximated the .303 Savage and it was a good deer load which penetrated well, expanded normally and had good weight retention. I killed about a dozen deer with that bullet over the years.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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mashburn posted this 04 July 2019

Hello lotech,

Thanks for your response and information.

Have a happy 4th of July.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 04 July 2019

Hello Ed,

Thanks for your response and all of this good information you supplied. Does RCBS still make this mold? I have about three similar molds but I am going to try and find this RCBS mold .I like the powders that you used in this load. I'm anxious to start experimenting.

Thanks and have a happy 4th of July Day,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 04 July 2019

To comment, but not address the original question.... My step dad always preferred the 303 Savage over the 30-30 BECAUSE he could get the factory loadings in 190gr over the 170gr in the 30-30. He used the deer for food. Upstate Vermont.

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mashburn posted this 04 July 2019

Hello TRKakaCatWhisper,

Thanks for your comment. To my understanding , the things that you stated are what made the .303 Savage stay in existence(heavier bullets than available in the 30-30 loadings from the factory). I fed my boys lots of deer meat while they were growing up also.

Have a happy 4th of July Day,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 04 July 2019

mr. mashburn ... i have a ppg throater i had made just for the 30-30 ... goes from 0.313 to under bore dia. at 3 degrees. if you can't leave well enough alone ( g ) i would be glad to loan it to you .... only cost would be that you have to report how it worked for you.

ken

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mashburn posted this 04 July 2019

Hello Ken,

Thanks for the offer and I may take you up on it. First, I want to see what I can accomplish with it like it is. Another question is; what would this throat change do to shooting jacketed bullets in this rifle? I'm a 30-30 Improved fan and I've been considering converting this one Bye the way, do you know where Decorah, Iowa is(I may have misspelled that name) I have a good friend that lives out in the country a few miles on a farm and another who lives about 20 miles from there. It is in extreme Northeastern Iowa to the best of my knowledge. I built a hog rifle for him and have taken him hog hunting and various trips looking for old cars. I made some money off of the two of them by selling them old cars, but I messed that up by becoming good friends with them and then I would sell them old cars for what I had in them. Thanks a lot for the offer, I really appreciate it.

Have a Happy 4th of July Day .We are just now heading over to one of my son's ranch to have our get together.

Mashburn

David Cogburn

David a. Cogburn

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45 2.1 posted this 04 July 2019

This subject was did up by Frank Marshall, Jr. in one of the old Fouling Shot articles. He used a B.O.W.M. heavy bullet (by Old West if IRC). Maybe Ed Harris will see this and add some more to it.

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Notlwonk posted this 04 July 2019

NOE has a mold that may be a copy of the RCBS that Ed refers to. It's listed as .... 311-199-FN-J2 (RCBS 311-180-FN) ..... and they have some 5 cavity GC molds in stock.

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Bill2728 posted this 04 July 2019

Hello Ed,

Thanks for your response and all of this good information you supplied. Does RCBS still make this mold? I have about three similar molds but I am going to try and find this RCBS mold .I like the powders that you used in this load. I'm anxious to start experimenting.

Thanks and have a happy 4th of July Day,

Mashburn

Yes, it is still in their lineup

BF

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Bud Hyett posted this 04 July 2019

Loaded SAECO #315 in the .30-30 for a friend who wanted practice loads for his daughter. Loaded for 1800 fps, used linotype alloy, Reloder #7 powder, R-P cases, sized .311 for the Microgroove rifling, and they shot well. The alloy caused them to weigh 169 grains, they shot in two inches and she was happy to practice. She then shot her deer with this load after her dad bought her factory ammo.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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max503 posted this 04 July 2019

"While I can shoot 210 grain 311284 from my Savage 99, it doesn't work with lever guns."

I shoot the 311284 from my Contender 30-30. That's what I used for the Coyote Challenge and it worked just dandy.

I used to shoot the 311284 in a 30-06 but I sold it so I'm looking for another.

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RicinYakima posted this 05 July 2019

The issue seems to be the long nose that, even seated to top of top driving band, causes feeding problems. It works in the Savage 99 and weights about 210 grains from my alloy. It shoots only about 200 f/s slower than my 30/40 Krag, so would not be shy about taking it hunting.

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mashburn posted this 06 July 2019

Hello 45 2.1

I've read his articles so many times I can almost quote them like a holiness preacher can quote the Bible. I've learned a lot from his writings sorry that he couldn't have lived longer.

Thanks for your input,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 06 July 2019

Hello Bud,

Thanks a lot for your input and information. I write all of these suggestions that I have received in my notebooks and plan to try most of them.

Thanks again,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 06 July 2019

Hello Bill,

Thanks for the contact and mold information. I really appreciate it.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 06 July 2019

Hello Max,

Thanks for the reply and information. I'll check on that bullet for my .30 Herret Contender.

Thanks,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 06 July 2019

Hello RicinYakima,

That sounds like a very nice rifle and cartridge combination.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 06 July 2019

Hello Notlwonk,

Thanks for the information.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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cbshtr posted this 07 July 2019

I agree with the RCBS 30-180FN, but I would get the NOE version if available. I have never been able to get an RCBS mold to cast at a large enough diameter to fill the throat of any of the guns I tried them in, that is with a softer hunting alloy. NOE molds cast at or larger than stated diameter with whatever alloy I use.

Robert Homan

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M3 Mitch posted this 09 July 2019

While I have never shot any game with them, the old Lyman 170 grain flat-point bullet has given me decent accuracy and I think if cast in #2 alloy, would probably be at least a decent hunting bullet. I mention this in case you already have that mold, or can obtain it more easily than a semi-custom mold. It's only 10 grains lighter than Ed's preferred 180 grain slug.

Although. I am starting to agree that the semi-custom makers are worth the extra money and the wait, if you measure your own rifle's throat and know what diameter you want. That said, my 170 grain FN bullet fits every .30 caliber rifle I have tried it in, giving "minute of beer can" accuracy out to about 75 yards.

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mashburn posted this 09 July 2019

Mitch,

Thanks for your reply and information.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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HiVelocity posted this 09 July 2019

I'm partial to the RanchDog 311-165 in hollow point configuration. This RNFP works in everything .30; including the 300 Blackout. Deer here in the south run around 160 - 180 lbs, the particular bullet has no problem dispatching them as slow as 1300 fps. I also have the Saeco #315 [175gr HP] truncated, but have not had an opportunity to do any testing with this bullet.

Just food for thought;

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mashburn posted this 09 July 2019

Hello cbshtr,

Thanks for your response. It sounds plausible. I store all of the load and bullet suggestions that I get on the forum in my load notebooks and take ideas from all of them. That is why I ask so many questions.

Thanks again,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 09 July 2019

Hello Hi-Velocity,

Thanks for the info. All of the information that I receive goes in my load notebooks for further reference.

Thanks again,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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M3 Mitch posted this 09 July 2019

It's great to get on here and ask questions, none of us has enough time to make all the possible mistakes for ourselves!

Considering that Lyman 170 grain flat point - I *think* it was designed specifically for the 30-30, and may be about as long a bullet as you can use without having part of the bullet "hang out" below the neck (which rumor has it can cause sub-par accuracy, although I think we had a thread on here more or less debunking that idea) while still keeping OAL well within specs so as to feed without any problem in most any tube-magazine 30-30 out there. An over-long or short cartridge can tie up a 94 anyway such that you need to take it apart further than I at least would want to do out in the woods.

That said, it was designed a long time ago, intended to work for anybody and everybody, but you have that throating reamer available, so a slightly longer and heavier bullet as Ed suggested might be an improvement.

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Brodie posted this 09 July 2019

Mashburn,

NOE lists a 178 gr. (TL310-178R) bullet in both .310 and .311 gas check and plain based. You might consider this one if cast from a little softer alloy it should weigh over 180 gr. and with that big flat tip it should hit like a Mac Truck. I have the 165 and it shoots quite well in my 7.62x59 bolt (paper patched) and in my model 94. It is a tumble lube design, but if that is not you thing i think that you could fill those little grooves with the lube of choice. John Alexander has shown that less lube seems to mean more accuracy. Good luck.

B.E.Brickey

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mashburn posted this 10 July 2019

Hello M3 Mitch

,The 170 gr lyman bullet that you are talking about has been in the back of my mind or at least something very similar. I'm going to keep an eye on ebay and see what turns up, I've been watching for Ed''s recommendation with no success as of yet.. Sometimes you can find a bargain and other times I don't know what those bidders are paying such high prices for. My other ace in the hole is I have a friend that has more molds than most dealers. I'm going to go through is molds and borrow all of the .30 caliber molds that I have a interest in and cast some bullets from all of them and see which performs the best. The guy is so lucky finding this stuff, He bought a box of junk in a pawn shop recently and when he dug through it there was 4 or 5 lyman molds in it. I'm 75 now and started reloading when I was 19 or 20. I had no money to buy equipment or bullets or such but I had a friend (much older) that had all the bells and whistles and he sold reloading equipment and components and he would set me up for a certain load and I would stuff cartridges. I would pay him for the components that I used and leave with a pile of ammunition. I hunted every spare moment and loved to just go out and shoot and this was the only way as a broke and poor college student, that I could to keep my habit going. I was up in my 30's when I got to where I could afford to reload and now have everything in the way of equipment that anyone could ask for and I consider myself one of the most knowledgeable jacketed bullet loaders that exist. But like I said,I 'm new to cast bullets in rifles When I got serious about reloading back in the mid 70's you could buy a box of primers for less than a dollar, I've bought 22 caliber bullets for a little over 3.00 and a pound of powder for between 3 & 4 dollars. The price of components now days is enough to make everyone consider going to cast.

You statement about loading with the base of the bulle below the bottom of the case neckt is something that I've often thought of but never did test. In my younger days and I couldn't afford to run out and buy exactly what I needed & I sometimes had to improvise and seat bullets below the shoulder. I didn't spend time & (Money which I didn"t have) to experiment but I may if my health holds out.

When I saw that Obama was going to be president I bought molds for every caliber of firearm that I owned and that was a lot of calibers. Some of them I've never used. I stocked up on primers and powder. I have swaging dies to make jacketed bullets of two different caliber and did have more, but sold some of them..It's about 4 in the morning and I couldn't sleep so I think it's time to go back to bed and try it again.

Thanks for your reply,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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offhand35 posted this 21 July 2019

I have been shooting 30-30 with a a bullet made from an Accurate 310-170C mold w/ RL 7 in my Encore w/ an MGM barrel, 1:10 twist. Velocity and grouping are much better than what I get from a jacketed 170gr bullet.

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harleyrock posted this 22 July 2019

Just being a little "nit-picky" here, in jest:

"While I can shoot 210 grain 311284 from my Savage 99, it doesn't work with lever guns."

My Savage 99 was a lever gun.

Lifetime NRA since 1956, NRA Benefactor, USN Member, CBA Member

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Fitzpatrick posted this 22 July 2019

I have a LBT 200gr. SP that drops bullets at 204gr., and a RCBS 180 SP that drops bullets at 185gr. I run them through my herters 313 swedge die just to flat nose them and shoot in my old model 94 getting 1800 fps with the 200gr and 1850 with the 185gr .with my old eyes and a marbles tang sight she will shoot 2in.groups at 100 yds pretty consistently.

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RicinYakima posted this 22 July 2019

Harleyrock, My Savage 99 is a rocket ship not a plain old "lever gun". Smooth, sleek and not a box of rattling parts.

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M3 Mitch posted this 22 July 2019

Mashburn, you never said what gun you are shooting in 30-30. I think the default guess is some sort of Winchester 94, probably a carbine, but there are a lot of other options. If you say which rifle you are using, that might help the collective give more usable advice.

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mashburn posted this 23 July 2019

Hello offhand35,

Thanks for your response. I, also shoot a lot of RL 7 powder with both cast and jacketed bullets.

Thanks,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 23 July 2019

Hello Fitzpatrick,

Thanks for your reply and Information. When I hear the word Herters it brings back lots of fond memories. You must have some years on your also, like myself.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 23 July 2019

Hello M3 Mitch,

At the present I'm working on a model 94 in rifle length. I have several 30-30's but am just playing with the one at the moment. Like I've said before, I'm filling up a notebook with notes from all the response I have gotten.

Thanks,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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M3 Mitch posted this 23 July 2019

As I understand it, the rifles are easier to get to shoot accurately than the carbines are. You probably already know this, but there is an excellent article on accurizing "old school" lever guns in the 1965 Gun Digest. One thing I read there is that if the carbine style front barrel band is tight on both the barrel and the magazine tube, the gun will tend to "walk" shots vertically as the barrel heats up. The rifle style Model 94 is not set up like that and so can't have that particular problem.

Working with a 94, you will have the short throat and OAL restrictions for reliable feeding, while I have not tried heavier, I'm thinking 170 to 180 grains is about all the bullet in terms of length you can make work through the action. Just IMHO, a flat point is better for hunting, and stays far away from any possibility of setting off primers in the magazine tube.