high or low scope mounts ??

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  • Last Post 28 January 2017
Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 January 2017

using

http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html

it looks as though a 3 inch high mounting gives a flatter trajectory as seen in the sight up to the sighting-in distance than a 1 inch mounting distance .

i used a 55 gr 223 bullet at 3000 and sighted in at 250 yards, a decent coyote shooting zero for a 223 .

i submit that you have a higher vantage point and are looking down the line of impacts .

hey, it's snowing here, gotta have SOME fun !!

ken

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Eddie Southgate posted this 25 January 2017

I want my scope low , don't like high. Buckwheat twied it an he don't wike it !

 

Eddie

Grumpy Old Man With A Gun......Do Not Touch .

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onondaga posted this 26 January 2017

The example I gave to 30Carnbut's post     (http://castbulletassoc.org/forum/thread/finished-my-first-rifle/?order=all#comment-b7c9aa05-5948-4a49-afc9-a706011e8ad4) was relative to a 30-30 with a very high scope mounting. You don't have to depend on anybody's opinion at all. Use the free software I recommended to get an answer for your application:

http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html

 

Gary

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onondaga posted this 26 January 2017

Ken Campbell Iowa   

Sometimes the teacher in me comes out. Don't think I'm directing a lesson at you. This principle of exterior ballistics was difficult for me to learn. A high scope that is sighted in increases the muzzle elevation required to be sighted in when compared to a sighted in low scope that lowers muzzle elevation in external ballistics. The high scope increases  the horizontal elevation of the rifle in degrees of angle. It has effect on the bullet flight path to the line of sight dramatically when big differences of scope height are compared.

The ability to play with that variable and it's effect constitute a value to the type of software I recommended.. I actually learned this as a kid with a slide rule decades before computers were around.using complex formulae and a friendly math teacher. Some readers may be stimulated to learn and apply the software and increase their grasp on this complex area of external ballistics.

 

The big thing noted by marksmen when evaluating the M16 during the development of the design was the carry handle with the sight on the handle way above the bore, This design was approved in that application for war combat but look now at the abundance of flat top sport AR15s being used for long range varmint shooting. I call that a win for long range varmint hunting with an AR15. It is math versus a tossup between tangerines and pineapples.

 

Gary

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Larry Gibson posted this 26 January 2017

There is one other consideration that enters into the equation with a high mounted stock.  If you don't get a consistent and positive stock weld each time the rifle is mounted you may very well miss the shot; either because the target is moving or, mostly, because you can't hold the rifle steady.  Also having to move your head up/down and sideways to obtain the sight picture (proper eye relief/position) is not conducive to the best marksmanship.

 

I have learned the hard way to adjust the scope position (occasionally the height of the comb)  to fit my eye relief and stock weld on any rifle for the most likely used position.  Any benefit of trajectory from increased scope height is of secondary or no consideration as I learn the trajectory for the cartridge used and adjust for it.

 

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 26 January 2017

hi gary ...   heh this whole thread is kind of a * nerd's holiday ” sort of thing .... not much to gain or lose here for sure ...

...but actually i did use your suggested software and tried it for both 200 yd. zeros and 300 yard zeros ....  reasonable zeros for coyote shooting ... they don't stop and pose at the little yardage signs ... in both cases the trajectory as seen by the sight up to the zero distance  is flatter.  this is because the higher vantage point of the higher sight is * looking down the impact paths * of the falling bullet .

,,,, while we are enjoying our little trip into the arcane, we could say that a very high sight allows/forces the shooter to position the barrel lower into his center of mass and thus decrease the effects of recoil on the system as a whole .   consider the extremely high ribs on olympic trap guns ... 

.... notice than when shooting handguns we bring the sight up to eye level ... we don't screek our neck down 8 inches and hold the pistol at shoulder  level ... why not bring our rifle sight up to a comfortable eye level ??  ... lastly, consider that john dillenger shot his tommy gun from the waist ... easier to control the recoil ...

....also, an advantage of high sights is that it increases the awareness sensitivity of  circumferential sight cant ... a longer indicator arm, so to speak .... if a one-foot tall front sight is anywhere near the top of it's arc your gun is very level ...

****************

but back to the real world ::   just to start, such a goofy contraption of a very high-mounted sight wouldn't fit in my gun case ... then it would catch on all the brush as i push through the likely coyote sleeping quarters ... then my red-neck buddies wouldn't hunt with me .... then my 18 power scope would outweigh my 9 lb rifle and squirm out of my hands on a running shot ...

...and all to gain a slightly flatter sighting picture . ...   

ken

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OU812 posted this 28 January 2017

Higher mounted scope will also reduce the blurred image or mirage caused by hot barrel.

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David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 28 January 2017

 For me, sometimes a higher scope mount just feels more comfortable on some rifles. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
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John Alexander posted this 28 January 2017

In my hunting rifles I like the scope mounted as low as possible for some of the reasons Ken mentions as well as sometimes more drop in the stock.  However, after years of shooting in benchers competition looking through the top of my shooting glasses as well as giving myself a neck ache, I realized that if the scope were higher it would be more comfortable.  I bought common see-through rings (that I had scorned for years) and I believe I shoot better or at least more comfortably.

John

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David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 28 January 2017

I totally agree with John, as I stated earlier some rifles are more comfortable with higher scopes. For hunting rifles most all of them have low mounted scopes, but the few rifles I just use on the bench have higher mounts for the same reason as John. I have large shoulders and it is just tiring to get into position to look through a low mounted scope at the bench. However I must state that I am sure that to a lot of people it may not matter. I understand onondaga's comments and they are certainly valid, but for some it may not be practical. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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