Ideal Handbook #36, one for your reference library

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RicinYakima posted this 16 December 2017

 

 

Ideal Handbook #36

 

This post WWII handbook is the one of the last ones that has the old Barlow Ideal format. If you only own on old Ideal Handbook, this is the one to get a copy from Cornel. #34 was from 1936, #35 may have been from 1941 or 1945, as I have never seen a copy. #37 is also unknown to me, but #38, from 1952,  is the most common one of all the old manuals and has the format that was used for the next ten years.  What #36 contains is the reason why Lyman moulds are number like they are, why they made tools and moulds like they did, and what they cost. Articles are on shooting in the early 1900’s, special moulds and loading data from shooters.

 

Yes, I know most of the powders are no longer made, but a great reference for velocities people thought they were actually shooting. Since there was no internet or electronic information exchange, people wrote letter and sent targets. Results are much more believable than today’s information.

 

 

 

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David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 16 December 2017

Ric,

Great assessment. Casters and all handloaders should study the history of our pastime. The old manuals & handbooks are not only full of information, but are just plain entertaining. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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Ed Harris posted this 16 December 2017

Agree! 

Also very helpful for the tong tool die chart with the identifying numbers so that you can seek out what you need at gun shows!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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R. Dupraz posted this 16 December 2017

I have a few of old Lyman loading manuals that date back to the early sixties only. They are pretty tattered by now because they are the first ones that I check when looking for starting cast loads and have found that some of the accuracy loads are still valid yet today. I wonder if one of the reasons is because back then, those loads were actually tested instead of being computer generated theory. 

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bushranch posted this 16 December 2017

My oldest is the Ideal 34 sixth edition that is dated 1947 . As I dabble in 310 stuff the charts have been a big help. I also refer to the Grove Diameters and twist rates for some of the old timers. A personal favourite as to cast loads is Lyman 43. These are more in the range of the bench rest loads we use in older rifles today. The "Handbook" of Cast Bullets , likely from around 1958 is also well used. It lists some loads submitted by a old friend back in the days when some were published. 

When recently looking for a jacketed .303 British load using the 215 grain bullet and 4350  No. 40 had the information I needed.

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jrmartin1964 posted this 17 December 2017

Not to be a "nit picker", but my OCD simply will not allow me not to speak up...

Lyman/Ideal Handbook No. 34 was published in 1940, with additional printings (with no changes throughout the text) in each of the years 1941 through 1947; No.35 was published in 1948; No.36, in 1949; No.37, in 1950; and No.38 in 1951. These publication dates are taken from original examples in my personal library

 

Dating the early (No.1 through No.27) handbooks can be somewhat of a challenge, as they do not carry a publication year, and publication must be determined by careful examination of the testimonial letters and advertisements they contain. Beginning with No.28 in 1927 (with additional printings in 1928 and 1929), they all carried a publication date within the first few pages, usually on the reverse of the title page.

 

I heartily agree that anyone with more than a cursory interest in reloading and casting should visit the Cornell Publications website and take a look at the, literally, hundreds of rare and hard-to-find volumes related to this hobby that are to be found among their reprints.

 

Jim

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RicinYakima posted this 18 December 2017

Thank you for the additional information! Sadly some of my copies are well used and missing title pages and covers, so I hope you enjoy your fine collection. Ric

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Wineman posted this 19 December 2017

 I don't get it. I click on Get One and nothing happens. Is is supposed to download? I really am not impressed with the new site and it supposed features. I liked the old one better.

Dave

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4570sharps posted this 5 days ago

My brother just shipped me a 34th, 35th, 36th, and 37th edition from my dad's estate!

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RicinYakima posted this 5 days ago

Not only useful, but a great memento of your father.

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loophole posted this 2 days ago

I have #38 and I use it all the time.  I want to learn all I can about historical reloading because I like vintage rifles and would like to shoot them as whey were shot when they were new.  I scrounged around for weeks trying to find load data, and just the other day I remembered that I have owned Ned Roberts' "the Schuetzen Rifle" since about 1980, and have read it numerous times.  This book is still in print.  For those of who don't remember or never got interested in the schuetzen rifle, Roberts wrote articles for various shooting magazines in the '20's through the late '40's and many of them dealt with schuetzen rifles and shooting before WW I.  A friend of his compiled a number of these articles with some other things he wrote and published this book about 1952.  Many of you know far more than I do about this subject, but I suspect that there are others who might like to know more about it.

The American scheutzen rifle was a single shot--Ballards, Stevens, Wincester '85's and a number of brands which haven't been seen in a hundred years.  They were some of the first rifles which required home made cast bullets. I believe most buffalo hunting and Creedmore type target shooting was done with swaged bullets the shooters bought from Sharps and Remington. Bullets were tin--lead; about 1-25 to 1-40.  They were made in a number of chamberings, but 32-40 and 38-55 were some of the most common, and I believe both of them originally were made by Ballard as target cartridges, and later used by Winchester as the basis for the 30-30.

Schuetzen shooting originally was off hand but then later the rifles were shot off a rest.  About 1900 a man named Roland fired 10 consecutive shots into a group which measured about .7"--a record which stood for more than 50 years. 

Roberts reported that the schuetzen rifle was loaded with the bullet pushed down the barrel from the muzzle  or later, with it was breach seated in the barrel, then a shell filled to the top with black powder was chambered.  About 1/16th inch gap separated the neck of the shell from the base of the bullet.  Usually the shooter fired the course with only one shell, cleaned, reprimed, and reloaded for each shot.

When smokless powder came on the market some shooters used it instead of black, but others used about 4 or 5 grains against the primer, then the rest of the case filled with black.  This duplex load burns much cleaner than black and allows 20 or 30 shots without cleaning black powder residue out of the barrel.

Roberts wrote about 4759 and 4227 and suggested loads for each powder, but all the other powders he mentioned were discontinued before any of us were born.  This book is the only source I have found of reloading data from so long ago.  I do not know when the first Ideal manual was published, or how one would get a copy of the earliest Ideal data.

Because Roberts' data allowed the whole case to be filled with powder, and probably referred to balloon head cases with larger capacity than modern cases, it will not necessarily perform in fixed ammunition for a lever action or a single shot.  For example will one of his duplex loads be safe if we compress the charge in fixed ammo and use it in a trapdoor?  The Lyman cast bullet book lists duplex 45-70 loads for Ruger #1and #2 , but not for trapdoors.  I have tried Roberts' loads, both smokeless and duplex, in fixed ammunition in modern rifles, but I'll reduce them about 10% in my antiques.  If anyone knows of a source of load data that cowboys and hunters used in the early 1900's, please let me know. 

Loophole

  

 

 

 

 

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BigMan54 posted this yesterday

When you read the old Manuals and/or magazines, you realize how dumbed down the current publications are.

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun.

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 16 hours ago

I just put this on my birthday list. wink

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