IF IT WON'T SHOOT JACKETED AT CAST VELOCITIES, THEN IT WON'T SHOOT CAST

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  • Last Post 01 February 2017
joeb33050 posted this 28 January 2017

In my 22 cf adventures I've tried a lot of Savage barrels with jacketed bullets with loads at or just under starting. As far as I can recall, no barrel in any caliber failed to shoot these loads ~ 1", this for just a few groups.

Shooting 22 cf jacketed loads at cast bullet velocities, it sorta seems that the barrels that don't shoot jacketed accurately don't shoot cast accurately.

I haven't got enough data to be sure, but...

So, with a new gun/barrel-rifle caliber, try a few groups with a known-accurate cast load and jacketed bullets. If it won't shoot ~ 1” 5 shot 100 yard groups, it may not shoot cast bullets accurately.

I mentioned this to John Alexander, who has something to add.

joe b.

 

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45 2.1 posted this 28 January 2017

Some points to consider:

- The statistical data you like to quote is based on an infinite sample..... you aren't there yet.

- 22 CF barrels have a shallow groove depth..... very hard to figure out problems with!

- I shoot 0.227” bullets to compensate.... what do you use?

- I have some Ruger barrels with oversize groove depth, they won't shoot under 2 MOA with jacketed... with cast they do under 1/2 MOA.

What shows up to me is that your bullets are undersize....................

 

 

 

 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 28 January 2017

joeb ... the chambers i did for you have 0.2245 - 0.2250 throats ...  but then since cast bullets  avoid logic, what the heck ... can you chamber cast 0.226-0.227 ??  ... 

ken

 

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SierraHunter posted this 28 January 2017

Isn't it cheaper to experiment with cast? Plus with cast, being able to fit a bullet to over/under sized bore, I think there is some advantages there.

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John Alexander posted this 29 January 2017

The late Ed Doonan preached that if a rifle wouldn't shoot Sierra Match Kings of the same weight as the CB and at similar velocities you shouldn't waste your time trying to get it to shoot CBs.  Ed was a friend and I took that as a challenge to prove him wrong.  I more than once rejected his advice but always regretted it after wasting time and money.

I did once have a rifle that would shoot CBs better than JBs loaded to full charge but never tried it with reduced power JBs.

John

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 29 January 2017

mr. sierra:

cheeper to experiment with cast ? ?? ??

take 5 sierra match mj bullets ( $1.50 ) ....shoot 5 shot group ... see 5 holes touching a nickel .    put gun up, watch tv.

or try 5000 cast ( $300-$500 ) and wonder if god is playing a joke on cast bullet shooters .... dig out kentucky bourbon, cry a little ... then get another idea and plug in the ol lead pot, another all-nighter coming up ...

but cheeper ... probably not ...

ken....

 

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45 2.1 posted this 29 January 2017

^^^^^^^^^ Good analogy Ken. Same difference in the real world in many different fields. You either learn how to tell the difference or you follow somebody who is a parts changer.

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Scearcy posted this 29 January 2017

Ken

I think you have  just spelled out one of the 10 commandments of shooting cast.  Well said.

Jim

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SierraHunter posted this 30 January 2017

I don't know. For me, cast bullet only cost me time, which this time of year I have plenty of. Jacketed bullets cost me money thought which being 23 and married and trying to get a life going, money is not over flowing. So I'd rather spend the extra time with the cast then spend the 30+ bucks on a box of bullets.

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David Reiss posted this 30 January 2017

Hum, a little CB math & economics as I see it.

5000 CBs = 117.87 lbs. of alloy @ 165 gr. - 42.42 per lb.

117.87 X $2.25 per lb. linotype = $265.21 

or

117.87 X $2.00 per lb. WW = $235.74

I can't argue with the use of Matchkings to judge accuracy of a rifle. Now let's do the same with .22 cast bullets......

5000 CBs = 42.86 lbs. of alloy @ 60 gr - 116.67 per lb.

42.86 X $2.25 per lb. linotype = $96.43

or

42.86 X $2.00 per lb. WW = $85.72

So in conclusion, the smaller the caliber/bullet weight, the more economical it is to experiment with CBs. My questions are, “Is the importance for ultimate accuracy more important than just our enjoyment of shooting” and “If you did take your 5 shots with your Matchkings, would you actually go home & watch tv or would you go home and cast more bullets"?????

 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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joeb33050 posted this 30 January 2017

It's not about costs. It's about simply testing a gun/barrel with good jacketed bullets and CB loads of powder, shooting low velocity; to get a notion about accuracy with cast bullets. I'm talking about 3 to 5 5 shot groups. It's not about costs.

joe b.

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David Reiss posted this 30 January 2017

Joe,

That is the point I was trying to make, inserting my opinion between Ken & Daniel (SierraHunter). My thought is that the cost would not be that much anyway and certainly not take 5000 rounds to develop an accurate load as Ken opined. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 30 January 2017

dave r ::   caught me exgatterating, did you ?

hey it has been a long winter .

******

although my dog might point out that i am a ” tad ” over 100,000 casts and still don't have a consistent 1.5 moa cast load ... good thing that doesn't upset me much ( g ) ...

keep shootin ...

ken

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David Reiss posted this 30 January 2017

Ken,

In your case I don't think exaggeration is the issue, more like all that Kentucky Bourbon you've been sucking down while watching reruns of the “Golden Girls".

David

 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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Dale53 posted this 01 February 2017

You guys are BAD-D-D! I got a real chuckle out of reading the above. Plus, there just might be a bit more truth than meets the eye...

Thanks for the grins (as well as the underlying opinions).

Dale53

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