leading

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  • Last Post 07 August 2018
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Ross Smith posted this 06 August 2018

Please no lectures on bullet fit..... If you have some leading in the bore, does it cause more leading or can it be "shot out"? Assuming the bullet now being used does not lead the bore.

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pat i. posted this 06 August 2018

Good question but I have no answer. I always used a piece of that Lead Cleean Gun Cloth wrapped around an undersize brush. Takes it right out. And NO lecture about bullet fit from me.

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RicinYakima posted this 06 August 2018

Please no lectures on bullet fit..... If you have some leading in the bore, does it cause more leading or can it be "shot out"? Assuming the bullet now being used does not lead the bore.

I've done some research and testing on this over the years and my answer is "maybe". That depends upon what is under the first layer of lead. If it was clean dry steel, most likely not. If it was oily, dirty, or  bullet lube yes. But like pat I., usually just take it out mechanically. Although for my Colt "357" model that is a chronic leader with plain base bullets, a cylinder of 358156 GC'ed will take most of it out.

As for why it builds sometimes, and sometimes not, I don't know. But it appears to me that softer alloys have more building up incidents than harder alloys.

FWIW, Ric

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joeb33050 posted this 06 August 2018

Please no lectures on bullet fit..... If you have some leading in the bore, does it cause more leading or can it be "shot out"? Assuming the bullet now being used does not lead the bore.

Bullet fit? Not me!

I've always thought this was odd, about lead alloys. We solder a lotta electronic stuff together. Carefully heating a soldered joint and removing/separating parts, then more heat on a terminal and brushing, and a copper terminal ends up copper with no layer of solder. Solder "sticks" to copper, (and steel), but heat makes the solder ball up and wiping/brushing removes all the solder. We never found a satisfactory explanation. I don't understand. why lead sticks inside barrels-but the lead-away patches take it out with no layer of lead left on the barrel. It's sticking, but comes out in lumps.

BTW, jacketed bullets or COW take lead out. I never had lead bullets remove leading, and I tried.

joe b.

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Ed Harris posted this 06 August 2018

Here is one place where I agree with Joe. 

Firing a few jacketed bullets WILL take the lead out.  It might replace it with metal fouling from the jacket, but the lead will be gone.  In a VERY heavily leaded barrel, such as in a .357 Magnum revolver after having fired a box full of the old, old factory lead .357 loads, firing a full-charge jacketed load in a barrel leaded heavily enough that you cannot see the rifling may indeed ring the barrel.  So I prefer a good soaking in Kroil and cautious scrubbing with 000 steel wool wrapped around a bore brush to get the worst out, before firing a jacketed round to get the rest, then finish with JB and Kroil to get any copper out.

Seems easier to use a suitable alloy, lube and load to avoid leading in the first place. 

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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pat i. posted this 06 August 2018

Seems easier to use a suitable alloy, lube and load to avoid leading in the first place. 

 

And don't forget to fit the bullet to the throat or throats!!!😀

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Ross Smith posted this 06 August 2018

OK! So now we can talk about fit--at least some what. I'm pretty familiar with undersized bullets and leading . How about too big? Will  the bullet material rub off or just squeeze to size?  I use wc/ww and a gas check, tumble lubed. Let's stick to hypothetical and not my rifles dimensions.

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joeb33050 posted this 06 August 2018

OK! So now we can talk about fit--at least some what. I'm pretty familiar with undersized bullets and leading . How about too big? Will  the bullet material rub off or just squeeze to size?  I use wc/ww and a gas check, tumble lubed. Let's stick to hypothetical and not my rifles dimensions.

 

No

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Ross Smith posted this 06 August 2018

Thanks Joe, that actually speaks volumes.

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pat i. posted this 06 August 2018

What are you shooting? I don't know if within reason a bullet could be too big for a bore but I've seen lead build up at the entrance to the throat when looking with a bore scope. I think it's just as important how the front of a bullet fits as the rear. Look for land marks on the bore ride section if a bore ride or the front bands if not. As long as the rear end is .310/.311 with good contact up front you should be good to go.

Joe's had a rough couple of days when it comes to throats and such on this forum so don't take anything personal.

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Ross Smith posted this 06 August 2018

Pat i: Nothing taken personal from Joe. He gave me a clear concise answer. I appreciate that.

No I wasn't talking about shooting 8mm bullets in my 06 but rather something say .001 too big, maybe .002. Alot of my curiosity came from loading my muzzle loading schuetzen rifle. To get a bullet down the barrel of proper size and fit with out mangling it ain't easy. Put some really too big bullets down that barrel. With black powder if you can get it seated, you can shoot it(within reason). Never had any leading either. Always felt I was within .0005" or less of ideal but never really got there. That .0005" is what got me wondering about bullet fit in my '06's.

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JSH posted this 06 August 2018

Most here have forgotten more than I know. I have been casting for a little over 20 years and still learning.

So I will throw in here on my findings. I have probably used, bought or borrowed everything there was advertised to remove lead at one time or another. I leaded up an 03 Remington years ago. Gent I shot with at that time was there as well. Ran some bore solvent,brush and right patch through, but still not clean. Shoot it out he says, I have some factory jacketed ammo, shoot two and your good to go. I tried it and it looked clean........ Went back and ran a few more of my cast loads and the group just got worse. Leaded again! Now I am past PO'd. To home, a bore brush, Kroil, bore brush, Kroil again and a tight patch. I could not see any lead, but kept getting flecks on a patch. After a dozen or so passes I gave up. Plugged the bore with a rubber cork, filled it up with Kroil, stood it up in a bucket and let it set about a week. Dumped the Kroil and ran a brush through followed by a patch. Another brush or two and patch job and all signs were gone. That was THE VERY worst case I have ever dealt with. No more firing it out for me. All it did was iron it out into thin sheets in the grooves from one end to the other.

Still shoot that rifle with cast and have never had another issue, so I won't blame it on the bore condition. It was a lube issue. Now a plastic brush dunked in Kroil or eds red and a patch and that's it,clean. Buddy tried to clean his 30-30 with jacketed. I warned him and he had the same issue as above. Smeared it from one end to the other. YMMV, but I will not try it again.

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Ross Smith posted this 07 August 2018

I've had hard lessons too. This question and its answers eliminated a possibility for me.I shot some loads that leaded the other day. Cleaned the rifle and shot a different larger bullet. Still had lead. I wondered if the problem came from not  getting the barrel clean the first time. Hence, does lead be-get lead?

Thanks all.

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Brodie posted this 07 August 2018

I have a Bulldog 44 Charter Arms which appears to have no rifling.  This is because I tried shooting soft lead bullets in it (Plumbers lead) in front of 7.5 gr of Unique.  It shot extremely well, no tumbling like I had experienced before (at least two rounds out of ten).  It is an early model with the barrel unfortunately swagged smaller when they installed it in the frame.  I could clean the gun and maybe open up that constriction by fire lapping, but why?  The last thing I want to do is shoot jacketed in it.  I feel that between the small entry to  the bore, and the extreme leading It could end very badly.

B.E.Brickey

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joeb33050 posted this 07 August 2018

I bought a Hepburn in 40-50 Sharps Straight. Brass is made from Krag. I had some 30-40 Krag light loads, cast bullets. I blew the brass out with the Krag loads. That's how I became the world champion barrel leader. Undisputed.

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Brodie posted this 07 August 2018

I bought a Hepburn in 40-50 Sharps Straight. Brass is made from Krag. I had some 30-40 Krag light loads, cast bullets. I blew the brass out with the Krag loads. That's how I became the world champion barrel leader. Undisputed.

Yes, when the bullets rattle back and forth through the barrel they leave a lot of lead.  I still think that I have beaten you in the leading dept. Joe.  My Charter Arms Bulldog looks like a smooth bore, and is a perfect example of small cylinder opening too small for the bore; only it is all in the barrel.

 

B.E.Brickey

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