Hello Again,
Not long ago there was a discussion posted on liquid brass cleaners. If I remember correctly, it was a formula for cleaning heavily corroded cases. I think it contained a small amount of muratic acid. I think it was Ed Harris who gave his formula for a liquid cleaner that would do the job. I've looked back through the discussions and can't find it. Can some one please tell me about the mixture?
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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Howdy, Gents.
FYI, a dairy farmer, years ago showed me a small section of galvanized pipe that was thoroughly rusted that he had soaked in "teat dip." It came out perfectly clean with a nice patina. Teat dip might be Lugol's soln (have not checked). It worked well for me to "de-rust" a Case pocket knife, the grey patina was a wonderful rust preventive, and durable. TSC had it last time I looked, 5 yrs ago.
I saw a YouTube video where a chap from OZ dissolved feed grade molasses in H²0 in a wide stock tank and put in rusted car panels, c 1930's for several months. Came out beautifully, and did not use harsh chemicals. Smelled to high heaven. Best to use outside since we do not want to offend the distaff side.
I'm not sure if it would work on brass.
Is anyone familiar with Liebig's solution? DGW 2018 catalog #167, p. 564 lists a formula for "CARTRIDGE CASE CLEANER." The solution is flaked chromic anhydride (chromium trioxide) and epsom salts in hot water (acidic!). You soak the cases 2-4 minutes, then rinse. I've not tried it.
I've seen this posted in several DGW catalogs. If anyone is interested, I can photocopy it and snail mail a copy.
Best wishes,
Jack from PA
JSM
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food grade citric acid in a quick bath
I shoot, therefore I am
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The other "trick" is tossing in pennies to rub against the cases. In theory, the copper in the penny should not harm the case and the extra edges hasten the cleaning. The problem is the newer pennies are not all copper alloy, but copper plate on a zinc alloy slug and the copper plate soon comes off.
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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Current issue of DGW, p.564 has a formula for Leibig's solution. You need to follow the directions exactly. Maybe our more experienced members have used this.
For me, I tumble my cases. FWIW, I tried dark glass sand blasting grit from TSC and left the cases in for a week. Too long, and it peened the brass. El cheapo me will stick with walnut hill media. Cheers!
JSM
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Friends,
I found a YT video several years ago where a rancher in OZ used a large flat cattle tank filled with water in which he added several hundred pounds molasses. He put old (1920's and up) rusted car panels to soak several weeks. Smells to high heaven after it ferments. Worked beautifully. Rust gone and metal not damaged. TSC has molasses in 5 gal containers. For smaller rusted iron/steel stuff, teat solution (7% iodine), available at feed stores will remove rust nicely and leave a gray patina that inhibits future rusting. Good luck. Any questions, please PM at [email protected].
JSM
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Hello Bud,
I have had some bad experiences with liquid cleaners also. That is the main reason for starting this discussion.
Thanks for your input,
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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I'm back again,
Ever since I got the response about the denture cleaner, I have been playing with it. I have discovered that cases that are just normally corroded, it will clean very well. I'm experimenting at the moment with some, I mean really corroded. The first normally corrodes cases that I cleaned left little black streaks on the cases and would wipe off effortlessly with 4 ought still wool. The badly corroded cases would leave streaks and was not very easily buffed off. I've decided that it results from the cases touching each other. I took those streaky ones, just a few minutes ago and stood them up on their ends to see if the touching was causing the streaks.
I pulled up all I could find about the ingredients contained in Polident denture cleaner. The only ingredient that I could see that would cause any corrosion remover was bleach.
I'm not planning on using any of this stuff, I'm just experimenting. My next step is to research the type of bleach that is used and determine if it is harmful to brass.
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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aqua regia ..really nasty stuff ...
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Talking of old case cleaners, a friend bought some home-brewed concoction at the Aledo Gun Show five decades ago. Cheap and guaranteed to clean, the directions were to leave the cases in for fifteen minutes, then thoroughly wash cases in clear water and use baking soda to assure all the cleaning agent was consumed. This had a bright blue color with a thick oily appearance.
The warning was to use it only in glass containers and pour it carefully back in the jug. This cleaned cases quickly and well. The other warning by the man at the table was to not get it on clothes or table top.
Having a chemistry major, my friend wanted me to test it and see what the ingredients were so he could make it at home. My suspicions were confirmed, Aqua Royal and copper sulfate to drive the reaction toward keeping the copper in the case and not leached into solution. Aqua Royal is a mixture of concentrated Sulfuric acid and concentrated Nitric acid. Not a mixture for someone outside of a laboratory to use.
My report was to quit using it. There was no way to make this solution at home unless you had a laboratory setup with safety features. We then recommended to the people running the show to speak to this person and have him cease selling it. This was done.
Today, I use tumblers with lizard litter (walnut shells) bought at pet stores on sale. And for black powder cases, the steel pins with Dawn detergent and Lemi-Shine additive.
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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Hello cfp4570,
After reading your reply about your dad putting denture cleaner in solution, I had to try it. Last night when I was getting ready for bed, I dropped two denture cleaning tabs in a cup of water and put a .357 Mag. case and a .35 Rem case in. I forgot about them until this afternoon. When I checked them they were bright and shiny but had a little bit of black stuff on them, which wiped off with 4 ought steel wool with no effort at all. I'm going to experiment again and watch and see how long it takes. The tabs have no ingredient list on them. All I know is they were polident brand. I don't know if any damage was done to the cases or not . This discussion is becoming fun.
When I first started reloading many years ago I was on a tight budget and couldn't afford a media tumbler and used the old Herter's liquid cleaner. After you cleaned cases in that stuff they stayed clean forever. I don't know what they would have looked like if you had thrown them in a tumbler after the liquid dip. My budget didn't allow for the purchasing of new brass either and I fired these 30-06 cases many, many times. In, fact I think I still have most of them, I hardly ever throw any thing away. They had a very weird color.
Thanks you for your response again,
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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Hello to all of you contributors,
This thread is not only informative but also humorous. I don't know about you other readers, but I have learned a lot. I've always liked to listen to the ways that people attack problems differently. Even though a lot of you readers will probably never try any of these methods, I still bet you have learned some interesting stuff.
Thanks,
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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Hello cfp4570,
Since, I myself wear a 5 tooth partial plate, I'm, just for kicks, going to put a cleaning tablet in some water and throw a couple of cases in just to see what happens.
Thanks for your response,
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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Hello Ken,
Now I know what to do with the catsup packages that I get at the burger joints. Since I don't like catsup, I'll just save them up to make brass cleaner. ha
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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Hello delmarskid,
I may try that on a mold also. Thanks.
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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Hello Mr. Chapman,
I have found your molasses solution so fascinating that I have been sharing it with a lot of people that I talk to.
We went over to my oldest son's ranch this afternoon to celebrate our delayed by 3 days 53rd. anniversary. He's a shooter and re-loader also so I had to tell him about your post. Before long the whole family at the get together was telling molasses stories. This discussion has turned into a very informative one.
I still say that the livestock feed molasses that I used to sample on the farm is much better than Brrr rabbit Molases.
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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Hello Max503,
Thanks for your response and info.
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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Hello Sluggo,
Thanks again for responding. I know know what Lemi-Shine is. I may try the tumbler with a cleaning solution.
Thanks again,
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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Hello Geargnasher,
Thanks for the response. I found it very informative. I particularly found the statement about mottled bras as a result of zinc loss. I have brass get old and when you put it in the tumbler it would come out mottled(shiny in spots and not in others), If that is a result of zinc loss? If so how did it happen without ever been treated with some sort of acid.
What exactly is Lemi-Shine, is it a furniture polish. How much lemon juice would you suggest per gallon of water for a cleaning solution.
Thanks again-very informative,
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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You have to be careful what acids you use in cartridge brass, particularly any which will be reloaded. Most acids at significant concentrations will dissolve the zinc and leave you with soft, porous copper. I think it was Ken Mollohan or maybe Felix Robbins who explained the chemical reasoning behind the use of CITRIC acid for safely cleaning cartridge brass. No other additives are necessary unless the brass has any wax or oil on it. A concentration of 1/2 teaspoon of pure citric acid powder per gallon of water works well. Add a tablespoon of Dawn dishwashing liquid to cut bullet lube or any wax/oil. McCormick spice company produces cittric acid powder for canning tomatoes, but Lemi-Shine is easier to find in grocery stores, I use a full teaspoon per gallon of LemiShine. Lemon juice works too but it requires more per gallon.
The citric acid solution will actually passivate the brass surface as well as get rid of the corrosion and it allows a thorough safety evaluation of the brass after cleaning because any zinc-depleted soft spots will show as bright copper.
I recently took a bunch of jacketed bullets which had been corroded with mouse urine and swished them in a jar of citric acid solution, they were shiny as a new penny in under five seconds. All my cartridge brass gets the SS pin tumble in a rotary tumbler filled with the 1 tsp Lemi-Shine/1 Tbs Dawn/gallon rainwater solution.
Citric acid will also remove rust from and passivate stainless steel. It is great for cleaning sinks and the SS 10/22 barrel that got left in a boat over the winter and helps keep corrosion from recurring.
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When I was a kid, I decided to start a cartridge collection and went to the gun shows with my dad and bought loose rounds of random ammo from the guys with "junk boxes" on their tables. Anyway, my dad threw a few cartridges that were tarnished in a bowl of water and added two of his denture cleaning tablets and left them overnight. Next morning, those cartridges were really clean, but not shiny at all. Totally flat and they polished up easily. No idea if it's safe for usable cases and never tried it on cases with heavy corrosion or on a large number of cases. Probably only novelty, but it did surprise both of us.
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