Little goober

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  • Last Post 15 June 2020
Shopdog posted this 09 June 2020

A recent thread on meplats got me back on a small project that hand been on the back burner for too long. Instead of going on a tangent to that thread figured a follow up on a new thread makes more sense?

Back story;

A particular RCBS 225-55 mould which honestly sat NIB in the queue was drug out,somewhat broken in and then,not really abandoned but,sorta put aside. Part of the reason was having other mould's,part of it being the dropped weight of 60g..... although that wasn't a deal breaker. Nope,by far the disappointment was out of roundness. The dropped size is within tolerance and what tiny bit of roll sizing I do brings it nicely into my personal specs. But the nose was still wack.

Not wanting to swage or bump the nose,the mould got put on hold. Like said,the #'s on the body and nose were good if you average out the highs/lows. So how to proceed?

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Shopdog posted this 09 June 2020

A very cheap TC barrel with a Vortex Diamondback tactical 22-250 fell into my lap. It has a 12T and two previous owners but less than 100 rounds down the pipe.

Got it cheap enough(beer money) that heck,the scope was worth the asking price. Found out through some quick measurements that the 60g RCBS mould had likely found a home. The leade/throat while being in spec,I could see by JB "standards" it was a touch,abbreviated. Cool with me.

But we're back to the roundness issues. The diameters are "gravy" if I can get the nose round.

I bought a .220 "tapered" reamer off evilbay on a hunch. Just looking at the pics of this NOS,USA made part it looked like the tapered section wasn't a straight taper but curved? Well,sure enough it is.... hey,better lucky than good. So yesterday took some 01 and made a "pencil sharpener" style ogive uniformer that I dubbed the "little goober".... LG for short.

It works great! The LG(little goober) "can" be used either before seating the bullet,or after. And can present arguments for both. Just understand the mission here. It's about uniformity mainly. On a "jammed" hunting round,getting a stuck bullet in the field can be an end of the day experience,buff said. By spinning the LG on the ogive,it's not changing the diameter.... it is making it round. By understanding the relationship of jam vs stuck vs accuracy it's a nice tool to have.

Making it took about an hour and a half so no big investment there. The reamer is deadnuts perfect and has been lovingly put away for future use. Can't post pics from phone,can't log on from computer.

Anybody who needs pics,PM me and will email them to you but,gotta say.... think of a pencil sharpener and you're very much in the ballpark. 7/8" OD,about 1/2" long.... with the reamed hole in the center. Use it like sharpening a pencil,down to a visual stop.

Touch more sophisticated by design but not really needed to discussion.

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Shopdog posted this 09 June 2020

Buff=nuff in above post(can't edit)

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 09 June 2020

" ...can't edit ... " ....  need to be logged in to edit.  with the current mystery forum, maybe you weren't logged in. ? ...  getting better tho > i have stayed logged in for 2 days !! ...

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 09 June 2020

i love the idea of a * spinning * former ... can you post some pics ?? ...

did you harden the die after finishing?

thanks, ken

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Shopdog posted this 09 June 2020

Don't want to jinx it..... haha,just did.

Have stayed pretty well logged in on phone. No pics,no edit however.

No on hardening. Yes,this is spun,which was the goal. Just got uber lucky with this reamer having a curved approach or lead into the straight zone. Very delighted it works but,have paid enough dues over the years(decades) of making tooling. You just need to go with your strengths,and process engineering has always come easy?

All this probably sounds very,oh how you say? esoteric or ambiguous but breaking the action down,rolling or spinning to change a shape has right much going for it. Where the in/out moves or punches material into,and honestly,out of lube grooves.... by rolling it,you are somewhat "cut 50/fill 50". A commonly used term in earth moving. The in/out(of a typical sizer,swage,or bump die) action is not helping balance one iota. And if it collapses or interferes with the lube groove the balance gets worse. Which,is why I generally leave bullet bodies,as cast.

Just gotta wrap the brain about not changing the diameter per se. Think averages and uniformity.

Part of the issue of whether you do a before or after app is because of the bullet centerline. I'll have to let you know because although I have lots of bump/swage..... test runout experience. Don't have doodly with this tool.

Back to the meplat thread reference; I made mention of certain processes that,if they don't add time to the process and eliminates variables then,why not? This was a significant driver on this tool. In my case,because of hard jams.... the very last op on loaded rounds is nose application of Lee LLA. It's to help running more jam,without sticking a bullet. So easy to test...... yes,that's an endorsement but may well not work for every chamber leade. And can cause barrel issues if not considered. So by lubing the LG with mule snot.... it's killing two birds with one stone. Try chamfering a case mouth with a VLD style cutter,both lubed,and not. See what happens.... usually you'll find lubed is noticeably smoother. Combine it,or process it so that it doesn't add to the work load on case prep then we get a + in the win column. So for me,right now.... using the LG as a final op works. And to be honest,beats the heck outta wiping the LLA on with a rag.

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Shopdog posted this 09 June 2020

Punches=pushes above.

Freudian slip because "punch" is the dynamic version of push when you lite up a case full of powder.

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Shopdog posted this 13 June 2020

Always heard;

Only change one thing at a time in load development. Welp, that ain't happening. There's several things going on simultaneously with this almost,brandy new TC 22-250 barrel/bullet workup.

Shot yesterday and it is continuing to come into it's own,on several fronts. Loaded up some more,increasing H4895 by another .5g

The LG is too easy not to use. I used it before,and after seating this time around. Sure,this mould has only dropped a few hundred out of cpl casts(yes,that new) so some of the out of roundness,"may" be that? But once past a quick visual picking up a bullet..... I seat the GC on a small 1930's C frame jewelry press with custom tooling.

Then "crimp" on a Lyman 450 with a beam style torque wrench handle only as deep as required to hit the GC. Might get about 1/2 the lowest drive band. Then spin the nose with the LG. Even before you look at the altered nose....... you can feel how the tool is reacting to the developing smoothness. VERY hard to describe and a pic is worthless..... would be like trying to describe or photograph the tactile feel of say sand,between your thumb and index. Try it once,and you have an,ah ha moment.

Then quickly roll size the bands,set bullet in prepped case,get it deadnuts perfectly centered before seating to OAL. Do a very mild "pressing" ,not really crimp(more by feel) in one of those Lee collet "crimpers".

Wipe off the case with acetone,and whilst still in hand,give the nose another light twirl with LG lubed with LLA.

Whole shebang is knocking on bugholes @100. It presently is GTG on varmint blasting accuracy wise but,it needs more juice. Going to keep adding powder until it hits a wall,back off .2-.3 grains and call it good.

If you noses are straight and round the LG is limited in scope. Where it shines is,determining that. A casual,very easy to use tactile,as well as visual roundness checker. And it does apply LLA pretty durn cleanly.

Will check back in a few more sets.

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John Alexander posted this 15 June 2020

Shopdog,

Have you run tests on bullets with and without the Little Goober treatment.  It would be interesting to know how much accuracy improved?

John

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Shopdog posted this 15 June 2020

Hi John,

This 60g bullet is the worst out of round bullet I've encountered since starting casting in the late '70s. That needs to be understood.

I tried it in probably 1/2dz different rigs and just couldn't get it any better than starting velocity and 1 1/2 moa @100. Which just isn't gonna cut it in varmint hunting.

When this short chambered 12T TC barrel came along I'd already dialed in 3 previous 22-250's with 14T barrels and this bullet was just not doing anything to speak of. It "had" to be the lack of roundness? It's a good design,and the diameters are real close if you avg the high and low so that's what set the whole thing in motion.

So can't answer your question with a yes or no answer because the thing is that bad, the "baseline" in my view,was flawed from the get go. The reason it didn't get sent back to RCBS is because it sat unused for almost a year,and have other moulds,etc?

So anything was/is an improvement.

I'd be hard pressed to say which of the 22's here are the most "accurate" because they're set up as varmint rigs,not true bench guns. But to take a '16 R700 ADL as an example it will rip ragged hole 5 shot groups about as fast as you can work them up through the magazine,and I'm talking,slamming the bolt fore N aft. At starting JB velocity. Until these varmint rigs start really ripping "X's" then I'm not to concerned with documenting what amts to failure. And I like keeping notes.

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Shopdog posted this 15 June 2020

Will get back to the above,an interesting thing happened today at the bench with the LG;

Having made quite a few swaging/bumping dies,this tooling was not designed with that in mind. Spoken of above. So was at the bench and because we play with free bullets,wasting a few to science is fun. For S&G's I stuck a 60g in the LG,put it on the C frame press and chunked it down to the drive band.

"Normally" there's about a .020" gap between the tool and this drive band,I sorta alluded to a cpl posts ago. This was decided on as a visual cue,if you will whilst spinning/uniforming. Believe me,you watch a gap like this if it changes..... you're gonna see it.

Back to the C frame,I chunked it down in there. Now it gets interesting.

As a check,to see if the dang bullet got "whacked" cramming it in there,I rolled it on the little surface plate that is used for all things round. The as casf body at this point is hanging out of the LG when rolled. The bullet was obviously WELL centered,cool.

At this point,the GC has been seated,but not crimped and is hanging out of the tool.

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Shopdog posted this 15 June 2020

You know how we as caster folks always wonder if pushing a bullet down into a lube size die is getting "cocked"..... and I'll state that they are on most unmodified lube sizers.

So here's the body hanging out of the LG,what if I take this now over to the appropriate 450 and whilst still "engaged" set it in there and crimp the GC before tapping the bullet back out of the LG?

OMGoodness,this is too easy. I can predict with almost 100% certainty that this thing can't be anything but perfectly aligned going into the H die. Minor issue,the ID of a 450 die lock nut is a nominal .625". The LG, OD,at this time is .850 or something.

I'm not going to do anything to this one but,will make another that will interface with the H die. This way you have options;

You can still obviously use it,just as a spinner. But if you're not satisfied with your sizing positions and misalignment,it can be a "starter" like a muzzle loader uses.

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Shopdog posted this 15 June 2020

The rig is coming around nicely though,back to the ? John posed.

One thing that these rigs HAVE to do is be VERY consistent coming off a deep clean. Scrubbing with Remington 40X and JB paste. Where is that first several shots going? Keep checking this over a period of time until you build confidence. 3 shot groups are fine because if that 1st shot isn't in the same as 2 and 3,then no amt of shooting is going to change that.

Many factors are involved here. Load balance obviously but there's bedding,optics,and the big one,how well you shoot.

This barrel is brandy new,I'm watching it break in. But at the same time am adding more powder with every "test".... AND keeping a very sharp eye on bore condition. Will report back.

Oh yeah,crunching the ogive down in this particular goober,it changed it from a tangent ogive to not quite a secant..... swear,it's a dang near perfect "hybrid" that's so popular right now with the JB crowd. All I'm gonna say is they better keep an eye over their shoulder!

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