lube grooves: Keith style vs others

  • 324 Views
  • Last Post 1 weeks ago
billwnr posted this 3 weeks ago

I'm wondering about the accuracy levels of plain base revolver bullets of single groove vs multiple grooves.  I find lubing what looks like a Thompson style revolver bullet with multiple grooves harder to position correctly in a Star luber.  The Keith styles are easy to hit with the larger, single groove and longer body style.   I got to wondering if either style is more accurate than the other.

I have not seen any studies on it, nor have had anyone give anecdotal data.

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 3 weeks ago

In my experience I think the number, size and type of lube grooves has no effect on accuracy what so ever. It has more to due with the particular revolver / bullet match-up as it is with most other firearms. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

Attached Files

RicinYakima posted this 3 weeks ago

IMHO, if you are shooting sheep fat and steam oil lube, the big Keith groove is better. Any commercial lube since 1950 will work fine with Thompson style grooves. Again, IMHO, if there is enough lube groove volume to contain the metal displaced by the lands of the barrel, it doesn't matter as far a accuracy is concerned.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • 358156hp
sergeant69 posted this 3 weeks ago

IMHO, if you are shooting sheep fat and steam oil lube, the big Keith groove is better. Any commercial lube since 1950 will work fine with Thompson style grooves. Again, IMHO, if there is enough lube groove volume to contain the metal displaced by the lands of the barrel, it doesn't matter as far a accuracy is concerned.

even having cast and shot various calibers since 1972, and still am, i profess ignorance (mostly) on this statement (the last sentence). would you please explain? thanks

Attached Files

Dale53 posted this 3 weeks ago

Many years ago, E.H. Harrison, of the NRA, ran machine rest tests on .38 wadcutters using NRA 50/50 lube. He had better accuracy using ONLY one lube groove. The information is covered in the NRA publication "Hamdloading" published in 1981. Ever since I read that excellent article, I have lubed only one groove in my home cast wadcutters.

 

FWIW

Dale53

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • RicinYakima
RicinYakima posted this 3 weeks ago

Forty years ago, one of the questions was, "What happens to the metal of the bullet displaced by the lands?" It can be pushed back and create fins on the base of the bullet. It can be displaced into the lube grooves. It can be compressed into the bullet to make the whole bullet longer.

One of the founders of the CBA, Ken Mollohan, and I wrote back and forth and compared bullets we collected from shot boxes back in the '90's. Bullets with uneven fins were not as accurate as bullets without fins. Bullets with lube grooves just as deep as the lands were tall were not as accurate. Most accurate bullets have enough lube groove volume to hold all of the displaced metal and not make fins. The exception seems to be deeply knurled WC's for 38 pistols that seem to displace metal sideways.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • 358156hp
delmarskid posted this 3 weeks ago

I just wish that I could shoot a handgun well enough to tell the difference.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • max503
sergeant69 posted this 3 weeks ago

Forty years ago, one of the questions was, "What happens to the metal of the bullet displaced by the lands?" It can be pushed back and create fins on the base of the bullet. It can be displaced into the lube grooves. It can be compressed into the bullet to make the whole bullet longer.

One of the founders of the CBA, Ken Mollohan, and I wrote back and forth and compared bullets we collected from shot boxes back in the '90's. Bullets with uneven fins were not as accurate as bullets without fins. Bullets with lube grooves just as deep as the lands were tall were not as accurate. Most accurate bullets have enough lube groove volume to hold all of the displaced metal and not make fins. The exception seems to be deeply knurled WC's for 38 pistols that seem to displace metal sideways.

 

thanks! 

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 3 weeks ago

i have a request for somebody out there with an accurate slow twist 30 cal ...   Midway ( for years ) carries an interesting bullet that i have been waiting to see tested and the results reported here ...

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101072537?pid=212052

this is a 30 cal 98 gr. swaged target bullet with the grooves formed lengthwise/axially  ... not  circumferential ...  since Lapua isn't known to produce duds year after year ... i would opine these would work well in a suitable barrel.

my interest is because i like the idea of swaging lead bullets ... and if grooves for the extra upset lead is good ...  axial grooves are easier to swage than circular grooves ...  

i would try this myself but all my 30 cal have fast twist and deer cartridge throats... well, except for my gi 30 carbine ( g ) ... 

ken

 

Attached Files

RicinYakima posted this 3 weeks ago

 Kid, That is what Ransom Rests and concrete benches were made for.

Ken, I have helped my pistol mentor shoot up a couple of hundred of these in his Hammerli .32 Long. They are pure lead and have a graphite/wax lube on them. Don't know how they would do in a long rifle barrel.

Attached Files

Squid Boy posted this 3 weeks ago

I think that bullet is a .314" - 32 caliber. Thanks, Squid

"Squid Pro Quo"

Attached Files

argie1891 posted this 2 weeks ago

I have shot the 32 98 gr. simi wadcutter in my 3006 loaded it with i think 12 gr of green dot was a fun little bullet to shoot. as it has been quite a few years ago i cant really remember how accurate i was just plinking with it and not shooting paper. it was fast. if  i remember correctly it broke 2,000 fps i need to check my records and see if i bothered to write down how fast it was. joe g. 

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

Attached Files

Larry Gibson posted this 1 weeks ago

I've shot several thousand Speer 98 gr and Hornady 90 gr 32 cal (.314) HBWCs out of most of my 30/31 caliber rifles.  I load them over Bullseye; 2.7 gr in those with case capacity up through the 300 Savage and 3.2 gr in those of 308W up through 30-06 case capacity.  Velocity runs 800 - 900 fps +/- with usually excellent accuracy to 50 yards.  In some the bullets are push thru sized to .311/.312.  

The Lapua bullet looks interesting but at $145 per box (1K) that's a bit too spendy to just answer a question........

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 1 weeks ago

thanks for the comments on the lapua swaged bullets, guys.  one reason for my interest was that if i ever get my 17 centerfire together i thought i would use " swaged " bullets , probably with axial grooves ...

one idea would be to use a length of the 17 barrel as a swage die  ... the rifling would make the grooves ... what could go wrong ??  

ken, thinking small ...

Attached Files

Close