Moly on Sear Surface -- Good Idea?

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  • Last Post 09 January 2018
John Alexander posted this 26 December 2017

Although the triggers on factory rifles have gotten a lot better than in the past few years compared to the lawyer inspired ones of just a few years. -- perhaps forced by the Savage Accra Trigger which made most of the others look bad. (The triggers on all my Savages rifles before the accra trigger were also 7-8 pounds out of the box.)  However, we still have lawyers and cowardly manufacturers and there is still room for improvement and I usually very carefully work on the triggers on new rifles I buy -- if I can see a clear way to go about it.  

Additionally I usually put a little moly past on the sear engagement surface in the belief that it lightens the trigger pull a bit and probably extends the life of the trigger. I leave it off the triggers of my hunting rifles that will be used in cold weather.

After doing this for over thirty years with moly paste (from Beeman's the Air Rifle Distributer) last week I read the instructions which warned against my long practice of doing just that.  Since I have never had a rifle that I put moly on go off without pulling the trigger or had a trigger lighten dangerously with use. I am skeptical.  But interested in any advice I can find.

John

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RicinYakima posted this 26 December 2017

John,

I have a safe full of Springfields and Krags that I have used molybdenum disulfide grease on, and have for many years. Since they are two stage triggers, they are always safe. However, I do not use it on my set trigger rifles, mainly because I don't trust all the levers and pins to be vibration proof when set. Plus they are light enough with just a film of oil. On cheap guns and lever guns, just smear it on, it may help and won't hurt anything. People don't like to shoot my Winchester and Browning lever guns cause they get moly grease on their hands!

The issue is sporting rifle triggers. Since moly is a lubricant for sliding forces, it should in theory, be safe to use. However my concern would be trigger design and wear. A pre-1964 Winchester model 70 trigger should be safe as long as it passes the "bounce it on the carpeted floor" test. The Remington 700, Buehler, Canjar and Timney are single set triggers with a lever between the finger piece and the sear that holds the firing pin. As long as there is enough sear/lever engagement I don't think there is an issue. But if they are adjusted to try to make a 1 pound trigger out of one designed to be a minimum 3 pound hunting trigger, you can have problems. Then any side vibrations within the parts will make the sear/lever slip and the moly makes it worse. There was a reason a Jewell trigger cost 10 times as much as a Remington 700 trigger.

Moly doesn't lighten the trigger or reduce sear engagement, just reduces friction. But if that friction is what is holding all the tinker toys up in the right position, it may be a consideration.

Ric

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Bud Hyett posted this 27 December 2017

When shooting Bullseye competition several decades ago, Ed Doonan and I experimented with lubing sears on 1911's. We heard that the lube on the sear made a better let-off and were trying any good idea to raise our scores. 

White lithium grease (Lubriplate), RIG, automotive chassis lube, etc., were tried in a whole day of tearing down, cleaning the sear, greasing the sear, and reassembling the 1911's.  The pistols were shot for twenty rounds slow-fire by each of us to get a quantitative measure. We called the shots and were confident in our shot placement. 

The other factor was if the lube affected the let-off enough to lower the trigger pressure to be unsafe. After each lubing, we used a trigger pull gauge to assure we were safe. The results were inconclusive in that no lube took the trigger pull down below three pounds, but some lubes did lower the trigger pull slightly. 

There was a feeling difference in some lubricants, but nothing that really made a difference in accuracy. Therefore, we did not lubricate the sear engagement area due to a safety concern and the fact while it did change the feel, it did not help the accuracy.

Also, winter hunting in the frozen Midwest requires minimal lube in a firearm. I have had wild dogs stand and watch me wondering why I had my arm stuck in my other armpit warming up the bolt so the firing pin will set off the primer.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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BigMan54 posted this 27 December 2017

Damn I'm still using the same tube of Shooter's Choice gun grease I bought at GEMCO almost 40yrs ago. I thought the new product worked no differently than the Grease from OUTERS or the stuff out of the tiny G.I. buttstock container. I guess I'll have to try something new as I just can't seem to sqeeze any more out of those ancient tubes.

Guess it's a good time to buy some Moly Disulfide grease.  

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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John Alexander posted this 28 December 2017

Bud,

Nice report on an actual shooting experiment long ago and far far away with Ed.  Ed was into far more interesting experiments than the ordinary bear and produced some great TFS articles.

John

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Starmetal posted this 28 December 2017

I had a lube I made up using that Outers moly grease that came in those little tin tubes, remember that stuff. I mixed it with some STP.  I first started using it on S&W revlover actions that I tuned and it really broke the actions in slick. Used it on other actions too. I don't use it today and had forgotten about it.  I'm trying to remember which gun oil it was that I used, either Tri-Flo or Break Free and I think it was Break Free. That stuff is pretty slick too. I know when I just put a little drop of it on my Browning Hi Power sear it really reduced the trigger pull, but it didn't last a long time. 

I don't know if I would be concerned about a set trigger because for me I set a trigger right before I'm going to shoot.  How would it get any vibrations or jarred? We're just talking a second or two shooting after setting it. 

Another oil that is really slick is that fish oil the Japanese used in their early motorcycles transmissions. My best friend told me about how slippery it before I was changing out the oil for the first time.  I dropped a large screwdriver in the drain pan and I couldn't get it out with my hand. I had ahold of it quite a few time and it just kept slipping out of my grip. Finally I grabbed it with a pair of pliers.  I told my friend about it the next day and he said he warned me and laughed. 

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Bud Hyett posted this 28 December 2017

"Nice report on an actual shooting experiment long ago and far far away with Ed.  Ed was into far more interesting experiments than the ordinary bear and produced some great TFS articles. - John"

The afternoon that I quit John Deere and headed for a career change in California, I stopped to see Ed. We talked for a few minutes of California and ranges there, the gun laws, the extent of cast bullet shooting, etc..Then I went to my son's high school graduation that evening and at 5:00 AM the next morning was on my way to a career where I would better use my education and experience. 

As we shook hands and I turned to walk to the heavy wooden door of his shop, I wondered if I would ever find this scenario again. The range, the experiments, the mid-winter bull sessions while planning for Spring shooting weather; a truly unique place and time in my life, and other people's lives. I have since found people with passion, but not the all-encompassing drive to learn.

Whether a memory of measuring leade and bullet engagement in the shop, or afterwards over a sip of Glenlivet discussing the meanings within T. E. Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom, this is a cherished time in my life. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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RicinYakima posted this 01 January 2018

I don't know if I would be concerned about a set trigger because for me I set a trigger right before I'm going to shoot.  How would it get any vibrations or jarred? We're just talking a second or two shooting after setting it. 

The triggers I mentioned are all single set triggers. When you cycle the bolt, they are set. They are "set triggers" because there is a lever between the finger piece and the striker/firing pin. This is unlike 1903 Springfields, lever actions, and designs where the finger piece is in direct physical contact with striker. If the lever moves the rifle fires without touching the finger piece.

HTH, Ric

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BigMan54 posted this 09 January 2018

Ok,

So I went to ACE Hardware this weekend. Picked up a few things, asked for the Blasted Moly D Grease at the counter. They had it, so I bought some. Then Sunday afternoon after my abortive casting session I was standing in the garage looking for something to use it on. 

I gotta use something tomorrow that I'll have to clean & grease.   

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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