RETURN OF RAINDROPS

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  • Last Post 01 September 2020
joeb33050 posted this 27 August 2020

I must adjust the arithmetic since a reviewer, “msnemo”, found and explained the error in my bullet/raindrop calculation. She did a great job without making me feel overly ashamed. We believe that the following is correct, and welcome comment and correction.   

A bullet will hit a raindrop when the bullet and a raindrop are in the same space at the same time.

A bullet travels a path from muzzle to target at an average speed, over the distance traveled. The bullet is in a volume of space equal to the cross-sectional area of the bullet times the distance traveled; and is in that space for a time-the Time of Flight.

Raindrops are of varied size from about .5 to 5 mm diameter; and rainfall rates vary from .5 to 8mm per hour and above.

The volume of rain, water, in the bullet volume of space, for any rainfall rate per hour and Time of Flight, is easily calculated.

We then know that the bullet and a quantity of rain is in the same space for the same time, Time of Flight, and if that quantity of rain is greater than zero, the bullet will hit one or more raindrops.

Another calculation tells us the raindrop size/quantity in the space.

The EXCEL worksheet with the calculations and simple calculator is available on request.

Note: Read fractional numbers of raindrops as probabilities, for simplicity.

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joeb33050 posted this 27 August 2020

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joeb33050 posted this 27 August 2020

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45 2.1 posted this 27 August 2020

Interesting tables in .22", .32" and .45".......... however testing and theory don't always agree. Long ago in the mid eighties I did this kind of thing until I found it didn't really matter. A particularly accurate rifle in 7.5 Swiss with the RCBS 308-165-Sil at about 1,500 fps showed no fliers until the point you couldn't see the target at 100 yards clearly....... no fliers until that point and one or two per 5 shot string at and after that point. Average rainfall in Illinois is 3.8"/hr (that is 19.3 times higher than what you used) per the States manuals and procedures for Rainfall regression equation use. In a 5mm/hr rainfall (less than 1/5"/hr you could probably walk to the hundred yard target and not get 1000 drops on you........ think about that folks when you look at the tables above.

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M3 Mitch posted this 27 August 2020

It certainly stands to reason that raindrops colliding with a bullet would have some effect, not necessarily causing the bullet to go off its original course, but at least reducing velocity significantly.

I would have thought the Army for one would have studied this pretty extensively. 

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RicinYakima posted this 28 August 2020

It is a non-issue with M-16 and M60's.

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joeb33050 posted this 28 August 2020

Interesting tables in .22", .32" and .45".......... however testing and theory don't always agree. Long ago in the mid eighties I did this kind of thing until I found it didn't really matter. A particularly accurate rifle in 7.5 Swiss with the RCBS 308-165-Sil at about 1,500 fps showed no fliers until the point you couldn't see the target at 100 yards clearly....... no fliers until that point and one or two per 5 shot string at and after that point. Average rainfall in Illinois is 3.8"/hr (that is 19.3 times higher than what you used) per the States manuals and procedures for Rainfall regression equation use. In a 5mm/hr rainfall (less than 1/5"/hr you could probably walk to the hundred yard target and not get 1000 drops on you........ think about that folks when you look at the tables above.

Well, ya got that wrong.

https://water.usgs.gov/edu/activity-howmuchrain-metric.html

Rates of rainfall

  • Drizzle, very small droplets.
  • Slight (fine) drizzle: Detectable as droplets only on the face, car windscreens and windows.
  • Moderate drizzle: Windows and other surfaces stream with water.
  • Heavy (thick) drizzle: Impairs visibility and is measurable in a raingauge, rates up to 1 mm per hour.
  • Rain, drops of appreciable size and may be described as small to large drops. It is possible to have rain drops within drizzle!
  • Slight rain: Less than 0.5 mm per hour.
  • Moderate rain: Greater than 0.5 mm per hour, but less than 4.0 mm per hour.
  • Heavy rain: Greater than 4 mm per hour, but less than 8 mm per hour.
  • Very heavy rain: Greater than 8 mm per hour.
  • Slight shower: Less than 2 mm per hour.
  • Moderate shower: Greater than 2 mm, but less than 10 mm per hour.
  • Heavy shower: Greater than 10 mm per hour, but less than 50 mm per hour.
  • Violent shower: Greater than 50 mm per hour.

1mm ~.040", 5mm~.2", 50mm~2"--the 3.8" is a 100 year max event, 3.8"/hr for 1 hr, used in building/road/bridge etc design.

Well, ya got that wrong.

 

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Rich/WIS posted this 28 August 2020

Rain can affect a projectile, some of our older members who were cannon cockers may remember the 175mm Howitzer.  It was a much faster long range round and regular PD fuses were suspected of functioning in flight when fired in heavy rains (think monsoon season).  They used a special PD fuse that had a recessed nose with small metal rods in an X configuration in front of the striker that were designed to breakup raindrops and prevent heavy drops from setting it off.  Think the 175 went out sometime in the 70's.  Perhaps someone here will remember it better, I'm trying to recall 40+ years ago and my recollection is some what hazy.

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45 2.1 posted this 28 August 2020

 

Well, ya got that wrong.

I always wondered why some places got there bridges washed out and roadways over topped and damaged. You've elucidated why..... the were using light rainfalls to design with.

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joeb33050 posted this 28 August 2020

In June of 1957, in tech school at Scott AFB in IL, we were deposited about Belleville IL to direct traffic during the flood caused by 12 inches of rain in 24 hours-as I remember it. It rained long and hard, we had no rain gear. Search on 1957, St Louis Flood, My picture may be in one of the reports. I was both thinner and younger then. More hair.

joe b.  

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joeb33050 posted this 28 August 2020

I post notes such as this to invite identification of my errors, "peer review", and to provide the info to anyone who wants it.
My experience is that my best bench days are calm and rainy-but that ain't the question I answered: how many bullet-raindrop collisions are there?

I don't know if these collisions cause inaccuracy-the anecdotal evidence supports both yes and no.

msnemo agrees.

Meanwhile, I seem to have bought a BSA MKII, Yippee!
joe b.

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Ross Smith posted this 28 August 2020

Interesting read Joe.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 28 August 2020

hi joeb ..

ya gonna drill a gas valve hole in that martini ?? ...

yep, eating my heart out ...

i miss my super-tuned 40x and shooting flies at 50 yards ...

occasionally post some targets and show us here unworthy pilgrims what we are missing ...

ken

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Shopdog posted this 01 September 2020

It was coming down in buckets yesterday with breaks once in awhile.

I must've been lucky to have the raindrops hitting just right;

Before spending 2 hrs in the field,sent 3 Lyman 175's into < 1/2"="" @100.="" stainless="" savage="" 116,30-06.="" me,the="" dog,and="" the="" rig="" got="" a="" very="" good="" workout.="" saw="" some="" game="" but="" let'm="" "walk".="" 1/2"="" @100.="" stainless="" savage="" 116,30-06.="" me,the="" dog,and="" the="" rig="" got="" a="" very="" good="" workout.="" saw="" some="" game="" but="" let'm="" "walk".="">

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Shopdog posted this 01 September 2020

That was pretty much a waste of time,looking up?

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