Shot buffer - PB bullet - 44 Mag

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  • Last Post 02 September 2018
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max503 posted this 27 August 2018

I've been posting about this load in the Bullet Lube category.  

I'm loading the Lyman 429421 bullet in 44 mag cases to use in a 10" Contender.  Been having leading issues.

Long story short - If I add .5cc of shotgun shell shot buffer over the powder the load doesn't lead the barrel.

The consensus around here is that fillers are bad. 

4-5 patches with Ed's Red and my bore is as clean as a whistle.

Anyone successfully use fillers?

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Scearcy posted this 27 August 2018

I have used fillers in the 45-70 with good success. Like you I used shot buffer for my hunting loads. As I recall, I also used a fiber card over the powder as insurance since these cartridges were carried for days in the field. 

I'll be interested in the comments here as I have a 41 mag carbine in which leading has been problematic.

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onondaga posted this 27 August 2018

I have good success with BPI Original filler in my .500 S&W rifle load for Bear. I chose to use the filler because my bullet is plain based and the filler provides a quasi gas check to protect the bullet base. This is per info and  recommendations from BPI.  My load:

RCBS 50-340-SWC as cast .502" in #2 alloy, Tumble lubed twice 45:45:10.

30.2 gr H LilGun

BPI filler, 11.8 gr to rim

2.050" LOA

1700 fps verified.

Note that the same load but with 35.3 gr WC820 clocks the same velocity interchangeably.

BPI is a fluffy flake high temp plastic filler that compresses easily and measures well from a Lyman #55 measure.

I get zero leading in my single shot Handi .500 S&W Mag. and attribute that to bullet fit as any cast bullet smaller than .502" in that rifle leads like bad, filler or not.

I practice and hunt with a Triggerstick monopod standing and kneeling, and the both loads consistently group <1" @ 50 yards.

 

Gary

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onondaga posted this 27 August 2018

In addition to the BPI Original, I have also tested Precision Reloaders PRPSB Filler. PRPSB is a spherical particle filler that meters very well. PRPSB claims that this filler cleans the bore and removes leading as you shoot. I can't verify that as I get no leading anyway because my bullets fit. WARNING: PRPSB is dangerous if spilled on hard floors! it is like micro ball bearings and you will fall hard if you foolishly try to walk on it.

NOTE: Either of these fillers will mix with your powder if they are not compressed. 105% compressed loads in the available space with powder and filler will not mix. The mild compression is completely successful for avoiding filler mixing with the powder.

Gary

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Scearcy posted this 27 August 2018

Bullet fit is king. However I have 1,000 commercial cast PB bullets which were given to me. The thought of melting down all of those bullets doesn't sit well. I suppose it might be possible to bump them up in a 412 sizing die.

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onondaga posted this 27 August 2018

WARNING

You can have a major safety disaster with fillers increasing load pressure if you ignore the basic dogma for fillers. The weight of the filler you use is added to the bullet weight for the total projectile weight in any loads using filler. Don't ignore that in your calculations for loading.

Gary

Note: This post has been slightly edited to remove unneeded aggressive language. 

John

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 27 August 2018

...not only does the filler act as more bullet mass ... it reduces the free space of the case .... essentially reducing a 357 maximum to a makarov ....   plan ahead !! ...

ken .... hey i might be one of those STD s mentioned above ...

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John Alexander posted this 27 August 2018

 Jim,

Why not try bringing them up to size with powder coating?  Always easy to suggest work for others to do.

John

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max503 posted this 27 August 2018

So.  You guys DO use fillers.

Don't worry.

I won't tell anyone.

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onondaga posted this 28 August 2018

So.  You guys DO use fillers.

Don't worry.

I won't tell anyone.

 

Max, there is a lot of debate on the subject of fillers. They are not recommended in any loading manuals anymore due to risks. BPI does specifically recommend their filler in reduced loads with straight walled cartridges. Their product is less than half the weight of the PRPSB filler per equal volume so it has almost as low of a weight addition as poly batting filler used in less than 2 grain application in straight walled cartridges.. Filler weight has a relation to safety and some popular fillers are actually pretty heavy with corn grits weighing substantially more than loading powders, grits quickly gets unsafe. There is one expensive filler that is nothing more than dietary vegetable fiber and powdered mica plus powdered graphite. All bio fillers unfortunately absorb moisture from air and change weight. That is a big red flag for experimenters also. Using fillers in shouldered cases certainly has the most accidents.

I'd actually not have tried it except for my .500 S&W load, the BPI is recommended for both plain based bullets like in my load and straight walled cartridges like my .500 S&W and I also had enough space for the BPI volume to really work as a quasi gas check and protect the bullet base from fire with my relatively light load.

Fillers can go wrong and it is the loaders that approach them with poor knowledge on the subject that get hurt.

I have actually home made a filler that is nearly identical to BPl in texture and weight by belt sanding with 80 grit a Walmart white high density polyethylene (HDPE) kitchen cutting board.

 

 

Gary

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joeb33050 posted this 28 August 2018

I know that COW and unlubed bullets = no leading, reasonable loads.

I know that COW and no bullet cleans lead out of rifle barrels.

I DON'T know if COW stops the flame around unlubed bullets; or if it cleans the lead out as it follows the unlubed bullet out the barrel.

Gary; will you test this with your plastic filler? Do unlubed bullets + plastic filler lead?

Thanks;

joe b.

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max503 posted this 28 August 2018

I don't know what BPI or PRPSB are.  I have used shotgun shell shot buffer and I need more.  Thinking of trying COW instead.  I only use fillers in 44 Mag Contender loads.

All my loads are well off maximum. 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 28 August 2018

... for the adventurous i have played with ground corncobs ... it is very light and inexpensive.....  we use that for a gentle tumbling media and it is quite a bit less aggressive than walnut hull media ....   although i have some barrels that maybe walnut hull media might be just right .   even better, mixed with valve grinding grit . ( g ) 

so far, so good with either ground cobs or dacron puffs .  i used corn meal in some trick shotshell loads but i worry about stories of corn meal turning to concrete in bottle neck cases .  usually if i  use filler it is in very light loads in  straight brass ...  45-70, 30 carbine, 32-20 ... 

in general, if you need a filler you really need a different powder/primer/bullet . 

*************

if cow cleans barrels, why don't black powder guys use it every shot ?  just curious; my black powder days lasted about as long as my bar days ... about a week ...

ken

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R. Dupraz posted this 28 August 2018

Ken wrote:

"in general, if you need a filler you really need a different powder/primer/bullet"

Leading is an indication that something else is wrong. In sixty years of shooting lead in rifles and handguns, including the BPCR, Pb or GC, I have not had a problem with leading that couldn't be fixed with a larger bullet such as in the case of a Ruger NMB 44 Special where eliminating the frame crush and a larger PB bullet solved the issue. When both were fixed, no more leading.

As far as the BPCR goes, non is needed if the proper loading procedure is used. Using the real black of course.   

I haven not found a need nor will I use any kind of filler/buffer.

 

R.

 

 

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joeb33050 posted this 28 August 2018

Well, another try.

No-grease-groove bullets,  with LLA and a plastic wad at the base of the bullet, don't lead.

No-grease-groove bullets,  overt COW don't lead.

I've never tried a NGG bullet with a gas check-never had such a mold.

COW with unlubed bullet doesn't lead, and removes lead from barrel.

COW is dense/r than plastic buffer and no real or imagined "caking" problem.

Will plastic buffer under unlubed bullet keep it from leading?

This isn't about fillers, it's about lube/leading, flame melting bullet base. It's about NGG spitzers looking like JB maybe accurate. I suspect that plastic buffer won't remove lead from barrel.

 

 

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joeb33050 posted this 28 August 2018

 

if cow cleans barrels, why don't black powder guys use it every shot ? 

Why did we go to the moon before putting wheels on luggage?

We've known that COW removes lead and cleans barrels, rifles and revolvers, for 58 years that I know of. It's been a filler over BP light loads since Pope.  

 

just curious; my black powder days lasted about as long as my bar days ... about a week ...

ken

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R. Dupraz posted this 28 August 2018

Simply responding to max503's original post regarding leading and it[s elimination using buffers/fillers

"I've been posting about this load in the Bullet Lube category".  


"I'm loading the Lyman 429421 bullet in 44 mag cases to use in a 10" Contender.  Been having leading issues".


"Long story short - If I add .5cc of shotgun shell shot buffer over the powder the load doesn't lead the barrel"

 

R..

 

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admiral posted this 29 August 2018

I don't know what BPI or PRPSB are.  I have used shotgun shell shot buffer and I need more.  Thinking of trying COW instead.  I only use fillers in 44 Mag Contender loads.

All my loads are well off maximum. 

BPI stands for Ballistic Products Inc. They sell plastic shot shell buffer along with all kinds of shot shell reloading supplies. PRPSP stands for Precision Reloading -Precision's Spherical Buffer, another plastic shot shell buffer sold by Precision Reloading. Both can be used as filler in cast bullet loads. 

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max503 posted this 29 August 2018

Someone on one of these threads said that fillers don't help accuracy.  My targets are telling me that could be the case.

From here I'm going back to basics.  Bullet fit and powder charge.  No filler.

The problem is I'm stubborn, insisting upon using the 429421 bullet.

But hey, experimenting is the fun part of this hobby.  My schedule allows me frequent stops at the range.  It's no problem stopping in for 10-20 shots.  And I have a deer load that will work.

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Larry Gibson posted this 29 August 2018

max503

I am a proponent for the proper use of fillers with the use of a proper filler.   I consider shotshell buffer to be a proper filler but prefer to use Dacron (polyester).  However, I have to mention I've shot thousands of 429421s in revolvers, rifles and SSs including 2 Contender barrels.  I've never needed to use a filler for any reason and have not had any "leading" issues.  If you're having a leading issue then I suggest a look at the lube you're using 1st, the sizing and lastly the alloy.  Most often the lube is the problem.

LMG

 

Concealment is not cover.........

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max503 posted this 02 September 2018

I got this at 100 yards out of my 10" Contender.  8.5 grains of Unique, 429421 bullet, No filler.  It still leads but I get at least 10 shots with good accuracy, and I haven't shot enough to find out when that falls off.  Some of my heavier loadings with and without filler lost accuracy after 4-5 shots.

For now I'm sticking with this load.  I'll experiment with bullet sizing and lubes.  Ain't gonna use a filler.

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