I've been posting about this load in the Bullet Lube category.
I'm loading the Lyman 429421 bullet in 44 mag cases to use in a 10" Contender. Been having leading issues.
Long story short - If I add .5cc of shotgun shell shot buffer over the powder the load doesn't lead the barrel.
The consensus around here is that fillers are bad.
4-5 patches with Ed's Red and my bore is as clean as a whistle.
Anyone successfully use fillers?
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I have read on here that leading is usually caused by a bullet too small in diameter, and/or too hard an alloy for the pressures being used. I have never had a change of lube cause leading to start or cease. That's not to say it can't or doesn't happen, just that I have never seen it myself.
I think if you are using shot buffer, you have to use a compressed load, or it will mix with the powder. Dacron will stay put between the powder and bullet.
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Yes. Gary's posts in favor of using it was what made me try it again. So far so good.
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Shot buffer was the only thing that Onandonga or Gary would use as a case filler. He claimed pretty good accuracy and a reduction in leading with its use.
B.E.Brickey
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I did a search about fillers and this thread came up. I've been having issues with a new rifle, a Rossi 357. Yesterday I tried out some new loads. Here's what I changed: Bore diameter of the Rossi is .357. I got out my .359 die and sized some 105 grain SWC's to that. Then I loaded those over 8.2 grains of Unique and .7CC's of shot shell buffer. They shot good. With iron sights I was getting nice 1-1/2 to 2" groups at 50 yards with a few fliers which I attribute to variations in the bullets. They came from a 6 cavity Lee mold.
After shooting these I followed up with some light 38 loads. I figured if there was any leading then these wouldn't shoot good. They shot good. I'm gonna order some more shot buffer and use it in these heavy 357 loads, and maybe in some 38 loads too, but only for use in the Rossi.
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BTW, ~12 years ago I bench shot a M29 at 100 yards for many tries, and ~4" was the best 5 shot 100 yard average-that with the "bad" chamber not used. This with various scopes up to 20X and several circular forehead cuts.
You saying my group is good? My Contender can do better. That's off an improvised rest with a 2x scope.
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BTW, ~12 years ago I bench shot a M29 at 100 yards for many tries, and ~4" was the best 5 shot 100 yard average-that with the "bad" chamber not used. This with various scopes up to 20X and several circular forehead cuts.
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I got this at 100 yards out of my 10" Contender. 8.5 grains of Unique, 429421 bullet, No filler. It still leads but I get at least 10 shots with good accuracy, and I haven't shot enough to find out when that falls off. Some of my heavier loadings with and without filler lost accuracy after 4-5 shots.
For now I'm sticking with this load. I'll experiment with bullet sizing and lubes. Ain't gonna use a filler.
Years ago I shot tens of thousands of 429421 9/Unique, no filler, from a Ruger Blackhawk with no leading. I lubed-no sizing. I'd bet a bigger bullet wouldn't lead in your contender.
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I got this at 100 yards out of my 10" Contender. 8.5 grains of Unique, 429421 bullet, No filler. It still leads but I get at least 10 shots with good accuracy, and I haven't shot enough to find out when that falls off. Some of my heavier loadings with and without filler lost accuracy after 4-5 shots.
For now I'm sticking with this load. I'll experiment with bullet sizing and lubes. Ain't gonna use a filler.
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max503
I am a proponent for the proper use of fillers with the use of a proper filler. I consider shotshell buffer to be a proper filler but prefer to use Dacron (polyester). However, I have to mention I've shot thousands of 429421s in revolvers, rifles and SSs including 2 Contender barrels. I've never needed to use a filler for any reason and have not had any "leading" issues. If you're having a leading issue then I suggest a look at the lube you're using 1st, the sizing and lastly the alloy. Most often the lube is the problem.
LMG
Concealment is not cover.........
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Someone on one of these threads said that fillers don't help accuracy. My targets are telling me that could be the case.
From here I'm going back to basics. Bullet fit and powder charge. No filler.
The problem is I'm stubborn, insisting upon using the 429421 bullet.
But hey, experimenting is the fun part of this hobby. My schedule allows me frequent stops at the range. It's no problem stopping in for 10-20 shots. And I have a deer load that will work.
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I don't know what BPI or PRPSB are. I have used shotgun shell shot buffer and I need more. Thinking of trying COW instead. I only use fillers in 44 Mag Contender loads.
All my loads are well off maximum.
BPI stands for Ballistic Products Inc. They sell plastic shot shell buffer along with all kinds of shot shell reloading supplies. PRPSP stands for Precision Reloading -Precision's Spherical Buffer, another plastic shot shell buffer sold by Precision Reloading. Both can be used as filler in cast bullet loads.
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Simply responding to max503's original post regarding leading and it[s elimination using buffers/fillers
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if cow cleans barrels, why don't black powder guys use it every shot ?
Why did we go to the moon before putting wheels on luggage?
We've known that COW removes lead and cleans barrels, rifles and revolvers, for 58 years that I know of. It's been a filler over BP light loads since Pope.
just curious; my black powder days lasted about as long as my bar days ... about a week ...
ken
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Well, another try.
No-grease-groove bullets, with LLA and a plastic wad at the base of the bullet, don't lead.
No-grease-groove bullets, overt COW don't lead.
I've never tried a NGG bullet with a gas check-never had such a mold.
COW with unlubed bullet doesn't lead, and removes lead from barrel.
COW is dense/r than plastic buffer and no real or imagined "caking" problem.
Will plastic buffer under unlubed bullet keep it from leading?
This isn't about fillers, it's about lube/leading, flame melting bullet base. It's about NGG spitzers looking like JB maybe accurate. I suspect that plastic buffer won't remove lead from barrel.
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Ken wrote:
"in general, if you need a filler you really need a different powder/primer/bullet"
Leading is an indication that something else is wrong. In sixty years of shooting lead in rifles and handguns, including the BPCR, Pb or GC, I have not had a problem with leading that couldn't be fixed with a larger bullet such as in the case of a Ruger NMB 44 Special where eliminating the frame crush and a larger PB bullet solved the issue. When both were fixed, no more leading.
As far as the BPCR goes, non is needed if the proper loading procedure is used. Using the real black of course.
I haven not found a need nor will I use any kind of filler/buffer.
R.
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... for the adventurous i have played with ground corncobs ... it is very light and inexpensive..... we use that for a gentle tumbling media and it is quite a bit less aggressive than walnut hull media .... although i have some barrels that maybe walnut hull media might be just right . even better, mixed with valve grinding grit . ( g )
so far, so good with either ground cobs or dacron puffs . i used corn meal in some trick shotshell loads but i worry about stories of corn meal turning to concrete in bottle neck cases . usually if i use filler it is in very light loads in straight brass ... 45-70, 30 carbine, 32-20 ...
in general, if you need a filler you really need a different powder/primer/bullet .
*************
if cow cleans barrels, why don't black powder guys use it every shot ? just curious; my black powder days lasted about as long as my bar days ... about a week ...
ken
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I don't know what BPI or PRPSB are. I have used shotgun shell shot buffer and I need more. Thinking of trying COW instead. I only use fillers in 44 Mag Contender loads.
All my loads are well off maximum.
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I know that COW and unlubed bullets = no leading, reasonable loads.
I know that COW and no bullet cleans lead out of rifle barrels.
I DON'T know if COW stops the flame around unlubed bullets; or if it cleans the lead out as it follows the unlubed bullet out the barrel.
Gary; will you test this with your plastic filler? Do unlubed bullets + plastic filler lead?
Thanks;
joe b.
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So. You guys DO use fillers.
Don't worry.
I won't tell anyone.
Max, there is a lot of debate on the subject of fillers. They are not recommended in any loading manuals anymore due to risks. BPI does specifically recommend their filler in reduced loads with straight walled cartridges. Their product is less than half the weight of the PRPSB filler per equal volume so it has almost as low of a weight addition as poly batting filler used in less than 2 grain application in straight walled cartridges.. Filler weight has a relation to safety and some popular fillers are actually pretty heavy with corn grits weighing substantially more than loading powders, grits quickly gets unsafe. There is one expensive filler that is nothing more than dietary vegetable fiber and powdered mica plus powdered graphite. All bio fillers unfortunately absorb moisture from air and change weight. That is a big red flag for experimenters also. Using fillers in shouldered cases certainly has the most accidents.
I'd actually not have tried it except for my .500 S&W load, the BPI is recommended for both plain based bullets like in my load and straight walled cartridges like my .500 S&W and I also had enough space for the BPI volume to really work as a quasi gas check and protect the bullet base from fire with my relatively light load.
Fillers can go wrong and it is the loaders that approach them with poor knowledge on the subject that get hurt.
I have actually home made a filler that is nearly identical to BPl in texture and weight by belt sanding with 80 grit a Walmart white high density polyethylene (HDPE) kitchen cutting board.
Gary
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So. You guys DO use fillers.
Don't worry.
I won't tell anyone.
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jeff houck
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Aaron
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Wilderness
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Tom Acheson
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John Carlson
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sghart3578
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Spindrift
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alphabrass
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SkinnerD
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MP1886
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