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MarkinEllensburg posted this 2 weeks ago

While shooting groups for a TFS article submission I had a good 5 shot group. .30BR 311335 at 100 yards. I think this is my best so far. Progress, still plenty far to go. So much to learn.

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David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 2 weeks ago

Nice group. Tell us something about the load.

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
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MarkinEllensburg posted this 2 weeks ago

27.8 grains Varget. Sized .309 with gc. Fed small rifle primer. Hand seated to just the bottom of the first driving band. The day was near perfect conditions, no wind, mild temps and humidity so no mirage. Just had to sit at the bench and squeeze.I think there is much more to it but calm concentration on each shot helps. This was for sure one of my best days performance wise. I think the shooter is the biggest variable.

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RicinYakima posted this 2 weeks ago

The shooter is always the biggest negative variable! The shooter is the least positive variable. You can't make poor ammo or rifle shoot better than it can, but you can sure make it shoot worse.

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mrbill2 posted this 2 weeks ago

We all learn by doing. Looks like your doing just fine Mark. Nice

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lotech posted this 2 weeks ago

There are apparently at least two versions of this bullet. The original has a pointed nose. There is another with a round nose that resembles #311331. The one I have is the round nose version.  

I bought my #311335 mould new not long after Lyman re-introduced it about twenty-five to thirty years ago. It's stamped #311335. I've used various alloy mixes, sizing diameters, and all tricks to make a cast bullet shoot well. As I recall, I've gotten some very good groups with this bullet, but for reasons unknown to me, I've never been able to do it on a consistent basis like I have with #314299. 

I've tried #311335 in .30-40, .308, 30-06 and probably even 7.62x39 with a variety of powders. I don't recall the nose ever being undersize in any chamber regardless of alloy mix. Seems like this would be the ideal .30 caliber bullet.

I have none on hand at the moment to measure, but maybe I should cast a few and try again.  

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RicinYakima posted this 2 weeks ago

IMHO, the first drive band is too far to the rear, even more than 311299. It looks nice, but doesn't shoot well as the center of mass is so far forward it is hard to get it stable. FWIW, Ric

p.s. same problem with '334, '335, '332, and '329. There is a reason they were so unpopular.

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 2 weeks ago

Mine is the roundnose version.

Interesting observation RicinYakima. It seems my rifle is able to stabilize these. I wondered if that is an issue honestly but with the groups I'm getting I'm thinking not for me.

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RicinYakima posted this 2 weeks ago

Mark, obviously it is not an issue for you! All of these bullets are throat sensitive for bullet fit. And all were designed within 10 years of the 30/03 and 30/06, when things were much looser for quality control. If you can get them to center up in the throat, they will shoot, it is just than many old Springfields will not let that happen.

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lotech posted this 1 weeks ago

Drive band placement may have some worth in this matter, but I don't know enough about it to comment. I would have to do a comparison of a number of designs that I know work well before I would give an opinion. Still, if this bullet works well for one or more and consistently accurate groups can be fired with it, a cursory glance might indicate the design has some promise.   

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 6 days ago

remember that little nose bump that NEI offered on their mold designs ?? .... wonder if adding a little nose bump on the designs discussed here would be an improvement ....   dang i feel guilty sometimes because i don't get serious enough about building an accuracy testing rifle ....

anyway the little bump was just a little ring that is about groove diameter but was short enough to allow easy  engraving for chambering ...

it could easily ( 2 hours set-up ... hah ) be added if somebody had a good trick 4 jaw and a small boring bar for his lathe ...

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dontcha think it odd that almost all of the most accurate bullet designs are long bore riding designs ?? ... or at least half length bore riding ,,,, in spite of the fact that we all know that long bore rider has to bend to one side from that 100000 rpm when it is launched .....( 0.004 out of balance in a 308 barrel ) ....    if we cut a mold 0.004 out of round would some of them get better when fired ?? ... just askin ...   ... by the way i have had some lyman molds that far out of round ...

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maybe i will try that bullet nose bump idea ... i have a new 7-08  barrel laying around ... anybody  shoot 7mm ??   would it turn a lee 130 gr into a good shooter ??  my lee shoots 6 moa as is . ( my rcbs silhouette long nose shoots 2 moa . )

ken

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lotech posted this 6 days ago

I did a fair amount of work with two .30 caliber NEI "DD" (dimensionally detailed) designs not long after Walt Melander introduced the concept twenty-five or more years ago. Going from memory only (my notes are not accessible at the moment), bullet weights were around 185-190 grains and approximately 210 grains. I believe these were cast of of an alloy approximating Lyman #2. 

Most of these bullets were fired in a new Remington 700 VS .308 which remains my most accurate .308 rifle regardless of what type bullet is used. The DD design worked fairly well as I recall, providing a number of accurate groups. However, I was not really sold on the idea as being any better than other conventional designs. I must add that my work with these was not extensive. 

The DD design, perhaps only in my estimation, would work best as a remedial modification for salvaging a mould with an undersize nose. 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 6 days ago

thanks lotech ... yep, those remmy 700 vs ( and also vsf ) were exceptional at least back in the 90's .... ... maybe they used outsourced barrels ?? ...  

my lee 7mm definitely had an undersized nose ... heh ... had to move the bean cans into 25 yards ... i bot a new lee 7 mold but through my usual organizational skills traded the rifle off before the mold arrived .   i hate when that happens ...

ken

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45 2.1 posted this 6 days ago

 ,,,, in spite of the fact that we all know that long bore rider has to bend to one side from that 100000 rpm when it is launched .....( 0.004 out of balance in a 308 barrel ) ....    if we cut a mold 0.004 out of round would some of them get better when fired ?? ... just askin ... 

ken

Since you asked: Conventional wisdom is not always true......... The situation you describe is more like the bullet gets shoved forward and gets knocked out of concentric alignment because the nose is too small a diameter to support it from going straight into the throat. I design bullets..... I know for fact what causes accuracy problems (that is undersize bullets.. throat and nose dimensions mostly). Several of those bullets shoot high velocity (Over 250,000 rpm ) 2,400 fps and above groups that most all of you would like to have yourselves. Two dimensional Barlow design nose riders work only when they fit really well, and that is not often (try those in the Swiss 1911 and French rifles with their tight barrels and see what they should do).

 

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