The "Answer"

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  • Last Post 07 September 2018
jchiggins posted this 13 August 2018

I've learned a lot in the short time I've been a CBA member; there is a vast amount of experience for someone like myself to draw upon.  The analysis, debate, occasional sarcastic comments, etc. have made for enlightening and often humorous dialogue.  

In thinking about the goal to achieve a very high degree of accuracy from cast bullets, something occurred to me. 

What if the "Answer" were to reveal itself?  What if it became common knowledge how to make cast bullets shoot as accurately as jacketed ones? 

What would you do?

Would you find another interest to pursue?  Just load ammo and go shooting?  What would you do without the on-going challenge or the aggravation that comes along with this interest?  How would you direct creative energy and satisfy curiosity?

"It's about the journey and not the destination", someone said.  Actually reaching the destination could be disappointing. 

Well, back to studying more data.

 

 

 

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Geargnasher posted this 13 August 2018

Some have found the answer (more or less), and you'll find a few quit competing due to boredom and went on to other things which add a handicap to accuracy (relative to bench rigs), such as antique military rifles, auto-loaders, etc.

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Ross Smith posted this 13 August 2018

Then we will run out of excuses for those fliers. I have met the enemy and he is us.

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delmarskid posted this 13 August 2018

It is beyond my ability to shoot either bullet to perfection. Progress is my goal.

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pat i. posted this 13 August 2018

JC if you ever do find the answer to making a gas checked bullet shoot those magical groups consistently and get bored try doing the same thing with some plain base. Those things will give you more than enough aggravation to last a lifetime.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 13 August 2018

my standards with cast are so low i meet them easily every time ... so no, i probably won't get bored soon ...  and if do shoot a miracle group, i feel guilty about over-achieving, so i quick shoot a couple more ... just in case the word would get out ...

ken

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Shopdog posted this 14 August 2018

Go hunting...... work on field shooting skills.

Would say 90% of my CB hunting is varmints so,there's not a lot of difference in the requirements or goals between JB and CB. Looking for tack driving accuracy with cold bore repeatability day in day out.A load that will hold up in the wind.An easy to handle rig,OFF the bench.And one of my personal favorites, the ammo has to be capable of being run up through the mag on a bolt gun.Throw in terminal ballistics and let the fun begin.

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M3 Mitch posted this 05 September 2018

An interesting concept.  In a way, I think the "answer" or "answers" are available on here, mostly being bullet fit, casting a decent, round bullet, and in some rounds like the 30-06, using the "right" powder(s) and heavier bullets for "serious" rounds that are over 2000 fps.  Ed has written up how to make Garand ammo with cast that will shoot as well as GI ball, which is good enough for me.

I rather agree with Shopdog- making "practical" ammo and working on the "loose nut" holding the gun are more interesting to me, than ultimate bench rest accuracy.

I have wondered about a match where one would get some points for accuracy, and some for - either velocity, or energy, or even recoil level, and of course time.  DVC and all that.  Slow fire bench rest just works on the "D" part of the equation.  Of course just shooting the National Match with a Garand pushes in this direction, you have to have a load vigorous enough to work the action, and the timed and rapid fire phases do reward speed as well as accuracy.  Of course shooting with a bolt gun counts too, you can't get good 200 yard accuracy with a "powder puff" load, or at least I never have.

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Shopdog posted this 06 September 2018

M3,reading Ed Mcgivern's book,"Fast and Fancy".... excuse any spelling errors....

Of all the takeaways, the one about training the trigger finger for the "reset" portion of the double action sequence had to be a standout. Not for obvious muscle memory or strength conditioning or locating exactly "where" the action resets....

Nope,it was eye opening because it's so counterintuitive. Call it the Warren Buffet analogy of shooting. So,everyone thinks the path to greater accuracy is __ ? There's a very good chance the opposite is true? An example: working on offhand rifle craft to improve your bench techniques.

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Brodie posted this 06 September 2018

I picked up some bad habits shooting with the IPSC folks where speed is every thing and accuracy is so so.

The only counter I could come up with was to go back to 25 and 50 yd. slow fire bullseye pistol.  I'm not done yet, but I have been getting better.......again!

B.E.Brickey

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Larry Gibson posted this 06 September 2018

Old Coot

I also quit IPSC because of the bad habits necessary for "speed".  I agree with the basic premise of DVC but the assault courses of fire with a handgun (now also with rifle and shotgun) were forcing me to do some pretty tactically unsound things for the sake of speed. In IPSC or IDPA there is no credit for good tactics and no penalty for bad tactics.  Thus about all we see is bad tactics.  Yes, the matches could be fun but as I was still a LE officer and an SF Soldier at the time so learning and practicing bad habits for "fun" was not acceptable.  Now, any shootout I might encounter is certainly not going to involve a "John Wick" scenario so the matches aren't relevant to me either.......

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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M3 Mitch posted this 07 September 2018

It's true that a lot of IPSC competition courses have gone over to "gamesmen" who do all sorts of things that are actually counter to the "Practical" side of shooting.   I was fortunate enough to shoot with a guy back in Idaho Falls, who always "kept it real" in the matches.  Guess I am forgetting that this guy is not running the show everywhere.

Still, particularly if you don't get carried away to try to "win at any cost" - IPSC type shooting can be a good cast bullet venue.  Defensive shooting usually does not require a high level of accuracy, but sometimes does require all the speed you can muster. Hunting can be a different situation.

Have to agree with Larry though - don't participate in shoots that would "train" you to use bad tactics.  Maybe try to talk the organizers into doing scenarios that would reward good tactics.  Me, I would be quite willing to listen to an experienced cop on this.

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