I need to buy black powder for my 45-70. I know that Swiss is very good but I am the frugal type and want to buy a case of 25. Graf's has Wano f and ff at about 10 bucks a pound less than Swiss. Are any of you fellows aquainted with the Wano powders?
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- Last Post 05 April 2018
Apparently the same as Shuetzen powder which is supposedly comparable to Swiss. Supposed to pretty good from what I have read but I have not personally used it.
How do I include a quote and then type outside the box?????? Good thing I am better at BPCR than I am with computers!
Anyway, here is my reply; Nothing compares to Swiss.
Buy powder based on what you intend to do with it.
Loading shotguns, ML, hunting with BPCR, shooting at rocks, banging away with friends.... get something other than Swiss. If you want something to compete with and are cheap and don't mind frustration, get something other than Swiss.
For match shooting, nothing is easier on the wallet than Swiss powder. You don't burn a half case looking for an accurate load. Given the rifle and bullet are good, sights are good, I will have a match load in the first pound of a new lot with enough to spare to shoot the first match.
Swiss is what they use when they beat me. A half case of what works best is probably a good idea. I've been shooting duplex and getting away with goex ctg.
Have you looked at Olde Eynsford? More expensive than Wano and Schuetzen but a lot cheaper than Swiss. A lot of BCPR shooters in my area are using it. I mostly shoot it in muzzleloaders and cannot see any difference between it and Swiss most of my black powder shooting is offhand with a flinter so your mileage may vary.
Let me throw out a question to those of you that have burned a bit of Wano. I'm new to black powder shooting and my primary interest is in BP cartridges. I do own a 50 caliber inline and a 1858 Remington revolver. To get started, I purchased 5lbs. of Wano from Graf's . I have no illusions of competing. All that is readably available locally are the subs and I do have a couple lbs. of Triple 7. I'm aware of Hodgdons warning about using T7 FFFG in cartridges. So, are Swiss and OE powders cleaner burning enough to justify the extra cost? Gp
Just my experience for what that is worth since you are not interested in competing at this time I would use the powder you have and learn to shoot it as the best that you can it will be a learning experience believe me! Once you reach a point that you think that maybe you could improve some then try some of the more expensive powders. Until that time happens you have a lot of load development, powder compression, lubes, bullet alloy, seating depth, primers, card wads-no card not to mention different bullet designs and throw in a few hairs from a black cat.
Yes Swiss does burn cleaner but not really all that much the real advantage is that it will shoot a faster velocity and more consistent pressure adding up to smaller tighter groups way out there 500, 600 to 1000 yards.
I will be trying the olde eynesford. I was going to try Swiss but figured I would split the difference in cost tween it and Wano. The results of others were encouraging. I got good 100 yard groups with Elephant believe it or not. The stuff was absolutely filthy though.
Some of the old Elephant BP was good and some was not. All of it was slow, as in not much power. By weight, equal amounts in my 45-70 would produce 1080 fps with the Elephant and 1210 fps with the Swiss.
The 1998 date code was the hopeless lot but the stuff that came in coded 24-99 was clean and accurate, just slow. And slow will kill your score on the longer targets past 300meter.
My experience with Olde Eynsford is - it acts like it wants to shoot. I just can't find a 100% reliable load for any of my rifles. I had about 5 pounds of samples and then I spring for a case with the same lot number. I am well into the case now and still have not been satisfied enough with it to shoot even a local match.
Now here is one for you that defies logic; I had four or five cans of Swiss all with different lot numbers and three pounds of Old Eynsford. These come to me as door prizes at BPCR matches and over the years I just had them. What are you going to do with one of a kind lot numbers?
Anyway, I mixed up the whole bunch into one large batch, some 2F and some 1.5F, Swiss and Old Eynsford. Mixed it well then repackaged it and labeled it. I set up to test it in my Schuetzen rifle. 38-55. I loaded ten each with 49gr, 50 gr, and 51gr. and a 333gr Hoch this rifle likes.
All three shot well. This is as close to a no compression load as you can get. 50grs was the best in that small trial. It will hold the 24 ring at 200yards.
I took it to Montana and shot a 100 shot OH match in December and two weeks ago again in a local match in Wyoming; 20 off the bench and 50 OH.
It shoots fine and I will miss the mongrel powder when I am out.
So, ....you never know!
I had a similar experience with odd mix. I had left over pyrodex in cardboard packaging, 2ff, 3fff, and a gallon ziplock bag of 500 postells that smelled like they were lubed with wheel bearing grease. I loaded the stirred and mixed powder over 7g of reloader 7, a card and about a .10" compression for practice loads. It shot like crazy. Our club has an informal 100 yd. Of the bench and 150 yd reduced silouete off of sticks silouete match. If the wiz bang grade Goex shoots that's okay. If not I'll shoot anyway. No prizes just a bunch of cool old farts having fun and telling lies.
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