8x58 Rimmed Danish

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  • Last Post 07 July 2019
longhunter posted this 06 July 2019

Well this Danish Krag came home with me from a gun show.  So after getting sights on the old rifle I want to get it shooting.

I need a little help in getting this Krag back on the rifle range. If you have an 8x58 RD let me know what loads have worked for you.

I'm looking for a set of dies.  I can make brass out of 45-70 so If I can find reloading dies to use.

So I am asking if anyone has a set of dies for sale or if I could borrow them to make some brass for this rifle. Also any Brass or ammo you have and would like to sell would be a start.

You get the idea.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Jon

 

 

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret. 608 797 0056

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Chickenthief posted this 06 July 2019

The 8x58RD is not a true .323" rifle please read this:

The 8x58R Danish (and Swedish) cartridge was developed in the era of BP, with the change over to Smokeless (or semi-smokeless) Powder. Bullets were cylindrical and long, whilst Grooves were deep (BP Practice). Excess Friction from a Long bearing surface on the Lands was reduced by making the Bullet of a diameter intermediate between Bore (8mm-.315" ) and Groove depth (.329-.330"). This Principle was used on all the 1886-1890s Long cylindrical bullets with Metal Jackets. The Flat or concave Base of the Bullet "Upset" to fill the grooves and give Obturation ("Base Upset Obturation") and created a driving Band effect, whilst the rest of the cylinder was lightly engraved with the rifling.

This Method of combining Bullet and rifling is usually called "the Austrian Technique" as Steyr was the first to manufacture rifles to this system in 1888. It will be found in all "8mm" Rifles, mm 7,62 (Russian), and in the Commission 88 (Germany). In effect, all rifles with long, RN, heavy Ball cartridges.

 

So to fit a bullet for the 8x58R Danish/Swede, one needs a RN, Flat Based .324" Bullet; if one wants to use a Spitzer Boattail, then one must use a .329" Bullet ( Boat Tails don't "Base upset obturate", so a BT .323 or .324 would suffer "Windage" and subsequent inaccuracy.)  This was found in 1930 ( Austria) with the improvement of the .324" 8x50R to the Spitzer .329" 8x56R ( with Boat tail...the reduced contact area and the boat tail both required the "Upsize" to prevent windage.

Now: to get Bullets for .324 in the 8x58R...use RN Jacketed Flat based "8mm" bullets, or make your own Spitzer BT by sizing down Hornady .338" in a Lee .329" Sizing die and use a strong (Cast iron/steel) O-frame Press; or cast and size Lead to .329"

Or buy .329" 8mm M30 S bullets from AV Ballistics Technical Services (Australia)...CNC turned Brass to M30 (8x56R Profile, but 172 grains only...60/40 Brass vs. 205gn Lead core steel jacket Milsurp.) Or even Pull down 8x56R ammo for the .329" FMJs.

Best for the M1895 Swede RB in 8x58R is the RN FB .324 diameter Jacketed, or the Cast Lead at .329"; although later used with the improved Spitzer 8x58R later in its life, the RB prefers the (milder) Loads of the RN Bullet....and the rifles are too nice to use with spitzer bullets..."out of Character" and "out of Era".

Doc AV

AV Ballistics Technical Services

Brisbane Australia

I have had very good results with the 8mm MAX bullet designed for the 8mm Mauser.

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/000068mmmax/8mm-maximum-225-grain-double-cavity-reproduction-mold

 

All shots fired at 50m with iron sights:

CH4D makes dies.

If you have acces to a lathe then cases can be made from belted magnum cases.

 

What year was your krag made?

From 1889 to 1923 they had a modified Metford to aid with black powder fouling.

From 1923 on it was a normal cut rifling.

Chamber throats wary according to bullet used at the time.

1889 to 1908 long round nose bullet

1908 on spitzer bullet (shorter chamber throat)

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R. Dupraz posted this 06 July 2019

Very interesting reply Chickenthief. Thanks for the detailed information.

 

R.

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longhunter posted this 06 July 2019

Chickenthief,

Wow thank you for all the info. it is a lot to take in.

Action dated 1910.   I have the Max mold you suggested.

I will look for the dies. That is my sticking point right now. Buffalo Arms has dies, $175.00.  I cant justify that cost at this time!!!!! Dang. 

I also have a Danish Rolling Block in the same Caliber.   I'm not sure how I came by two "Danes", but I have them.

Thanks for the idea on the Belted mag brass.  Is there enough rim to grab? The brass I have is from 45-70 with the rim trimmed.

I have a few sticks of brass but not many.

So Rent a die is what I need or find a set I can afford!

Any Ideas?

Thank you for your help.

It is truly appreciated.

Jon

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret. 608 797 0056

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Chickenthief posted this 06 July 2019

That RB of yours does it have wood above the stock to cover the barrel?

Then it's hens teeth!

Only 1700 ever made for the Danish Navy.

 

But i suspect a Swede as i have myself and the load shown are made for that one.

BACO has ready made cases for the 8x58RD so buy some until you can get dies and be self sufficient.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/8x58r-danish-krag-reformed-brass-cases-for-rifles-with-070-head-space-8x58r070

Dont give a toss about their headspace mumbojumbo the Danish army didnt and survived!*

I only necksize cases enough (75% of the neck length) to hold the bullet and handfeed the KJ, the long MAX bullet would not feed properly anyway.

 

* Under the bolt handle there is a number. That is the actual measured headspace of the given rifle/bolt combo as issued.

The number is in hundreds of a millimeter ie 27 is 0.27mm

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JeffinNZ posted this 06 July 2019

GREAT thread with valuable info.

Cheers from New Zealand

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Chickenthief posted this 07 July 2019

Even more info here: https://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?85-Krag-rifles-of-Norway-Denmark-amp-U-S-A

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longhunter posted this 07 July 2019

No my Roller has the simple one piece forearm.

The Danish Krag was butchered up and made into a Sporter.

It had a plastic Willams rear sight and a slide on front with duck tape under it.

I put a Springfield front sight on it and a Krag rear so I can shoot it.

It looks a little funny with the long barrel but that's ok.

When I get it shooting I will let you know.

I will need to cast some of the larger 8mm.

Thanks again for the help.

Jon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret. 608 797 0056

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Chickenthief posted this 07 July 2019

I have Quickload and can help you taylor some loads for your rifle, no problem.

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