Ardito stuff

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Ross Smith posted this 4 weeks ago

This could be in a couple topics but here goes. I PM'd Lee Wiggins about this but I'd like the opinion of the group. I also plan to test this.

John Ardito made cases for his .308x1.5"  rifles with an inside shoulder in the case neck.  This served as a seating depth stop that would withstand the force of seating the bullet into the lands and a tight throat fit. It also allowed bullets to be finger seated at the bench. Some thought this was cheating  when it comes to the rule of fixed ammo since the bullet was seated loosely and only to little more than the gc area. I have done this with some success, but not good consistency. Would neck sizing and increasing the neck tension help? I plan on testing this along with finding out which seating depth is best. Moving the bullet into the tapered throat 1/8"after it first touches is difficult. Lot's to try here, but I'd like your opinion especially if you have info on how John Ardito did it or anyone else that has tried this.

Ross

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porthos posted this 4 weeks ago

i have a audito rifle (308x1.625) . i load at the range. the necks are not inside reamed. i belive that inside reaming is not as consistent as outside neck turning. but benchrest shooters would know more than i do about this. since you are shortening the case so much; would it work better to do both? i don't shoot the gun any more; but if i do its something to try.

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Ross Smith posted this 4 weeks ago

Mine is also the 1.625. After messing around with odd amounts of mixed headstamp brass , I finally broke down and bought 100 lapua brass and I wanted to get all the methods and madnesses out of the way before I screw up the lapua brass. I prefer inside reaming simply because it is easier, at least for me. So I either leave the " seating shelf" in the case neck or ream all the way thru.

I also thought that I could skip neck sizing and just de-prime,prime,powder, and shove in a bullet finger tight. apparently not. I'm gonna have to neck size.

Did you size your cases after each firing?

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porthos posted this 4 weeks ago

no i never sized a case. use only case and load  over and over. if i remenber audito said load it until the primers get too loose. if i shoot this again; i think that i'll load  a batch at home and not reload at the range. i never liked doing that.

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Tom G posted this 4 weeks ago

Ross, 

I always shot with straight wall necks but if you want to make a shoulder inside the case, you might try neck turning on the outside but stop short of the shoulder and leave a step in the outside of the neck. Then neck size to the shoulder and the step should go to the inside of the neck and you could seat to that step. 

I never tried it but some folks did it that way. 

Tom G

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Ross Smith posted this 4 weeks ago

Tom: I've done it that way on my lathe and I've also used an inside reamer. The inside reamer was easier for me. I'm going shooting today and will start my comparison of straight wall vs stepped and inside reaming vs outside reaming . Straight wall cases with neck tension are more convenient cuz you can load a ton of them at home.

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John Alexander posted this 4 weeks ago

If folks are worried that inside reaming results in variation in neck thickness (the conventional wisdom) why not check neck thickness at sever points around the neck in a few inside reamed cases and report back.  "Just believing" instead of actually finding out is too bad but standard practice in reloading.

John Ardito not only thought that using one case was necessary (a now almost entirely abandoned drill) but use to weigh powder at the bench during a match.  He had a little box to cut down the wind effect. If I remember correctly he later gave up that useless refinement.

John was an outstanding offhand shot and still holds both of the CBA records for standing.  He shot barefooted and claimed he could feel the ground better that way.  That may have been a bit of showmanship, or not, which John sometimes engaged in.  John's rifles were always awful looking things with duct tape unfinished stocks and dirt and he claimed to have the ugliest rifle.

John

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Lee Wiggins posted this 4 weeks ago

Ross, I never got a PM from you. To do the step thing in the case neck you need brass with a thick neck which is why I learned from John Ardito to make the case from 3006 ,270 etc. Form the case , turn down a cast bullet to fit the very tight neck , fire it to fire form the case ( get a snug fit of the neck to chamber , ream inside of neck to desired depth of seating bullet base. An alternate method that John had switched to is the taper on the inside of the neck. Form case as above , push case neck over a tapered rod that is mounted in a collet on lathe. It is pushed on the rod with the tail stock center in the primer pocket , taper on rod , .312 to .309 in the length of the case neck. Lets say bullet base is .311 , push case on the rod so that the case mouth is at the .312 point of the taper. now lathe turn the neck diam. for a just touching fit in chamber. I pull the case off the rod with a shell holder mounted on a swing into position thing attached to the tail stock ram. With this case bullet is hand seated in case little more than gas check deep , on chambering the taper on the bullet comes up against the taper in the throat ( remember throat and bumping die were both cut with the same reamer ) Once tapers are in contact that is all the further the bullet can be pushed into the throat. rotating the bolt closed then pushes the bullet base deeper into the case neck. It is tapered inside so gets tighter as seating depth increases.  I find this method a lot easier than the step on the inside of the neck.                  

                     Lee Wiggins 

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Lee Wiggins posted this 4 weeks ago

A little PS here , I think John Ardito put the very shallow taper in his case necks using a tapered reamer. I did not have such a reamer so I used the tapered rod and turn outside described above.

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Ross Smith posted this 4 weeks ago

Thanks Lee. I better check my email service. Anyway, I have made cases that way. I believe you told me how to do that complete with pictures. For this last batch of experimental cases, I sized the 30x1.625 from 308 lapua brass, trimmed to 1.624. I then expand the case neck with a .308 expander from NOE, Then I ream the neck with a .311reamer and either stop for a pre-set shoulder, or go straight thru for a straight neck.  The 308 Lapua brass have a correct wall thickness and OD when prepped this way. '06 cases are thicker and need a different prepping. I was looking for an easier way to make the cases and that's why I came up with this method.

The lapua cases with a straight neck were the clear winners for best group today in very windy swirling conditions. In all fairness the other lots of brass were of like headstamp but different lots. I will pursue this because one 5 shot group for each of six catagories is not statistical. The two groups of cases that had internal shelves for controlling bullet seating were the next best for group but I split the neck on one case and that was a 3" flier. Time to anneal those old original to the rifle cases. By the way these old cases that came with the rifle were made as Lee Wiggins described.

I might mention to all CBA'ers that Lee has been a good coach for about a year of my fumbling around. I say that as a heads up to all the new and newer  members, there is a lot of info in this group.

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