Lee Liquid Alox

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bailsxt9rt@aol.con posted this 17 May 2020

I have always lubed my cast bullets with rcbs bullet lube.  I  have never used alox.  My question is do you use both or just alox by itself

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bailsxt9rt@aol.con posted this 17 May 2020

does anyone have an answer?  If alox is a good lube it seems redundant to use both alox and rcbs bullet lube on the same cast

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BigMan54 posted this 17 May 2020

Does your RCBS bullet lube contain alox ?

 

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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Redleged posted this 17 May 2020

does anyone have an answer?  If alox is a good lube it seems redundant to use both alox and rcbs bullet lube on the same cast

Hi. I don't quite understand your question. Are you talking about tumble lubing after you've applied RCBS lube in a lube-sizer? If so, you certainly can, and it won't hurt, but I feel is probably unnecessary. If you've never tried tumble lubing, it's easy and effective. Here's an excellent thread on tumble lubing on the other cast site. You can make your own 45-45-10, or buy it ready made from White Label Lube. ETA: "xlox" is the same stuff as "Alox," but the name is trademarked, so Lars had to use another name. Hope this helps.

Ed

Growing old is mandatory, growing up, however, is totally optional!

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Wheel Weights posted this 17 May 2020

One or the other. Ben's mix is best for tumble lube followed by a tumble in dry powder lube to avoid stickyness.

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porthos posted this 17 May 2020

what is "dry powder lube" ??

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 17 May 2020

One or the other, not both.

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John Alexander posted this 17 May 2020

We have had tests reported both on this forum and in the Fouling Shot that show that many, probably most, cast bullet loads may not need what we call lubricant at all -- as in none.

I suppose some people are suggesting conventional lube plus tumble lube, but I have seen NO testing results that give the slightest hint that this does any good or even results that it doesn't hurt accuracy. We have been getting good results with only in the groove type "lubes" for 150 years why add tumble lube now.

If you do decide to use both, please run tests with and without and find out if it improves or degrades accuracy.  Results would make a good post for this thread.  Facts instead of opinions are always welcome but usually scarce.

John

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Bud Hyett posted this 17 May 2020

The NRA ALOX/Beeswax formula is an attempt to make ALOX easy to use for lubricant. Beeswax is a carrier to allow the ALOX to be applied, beeswax stiffens the ALOX to where is can be easily and reliably applied in a lubrisizer. The Javelina Schuetzen lube is 75% beeswax with 25% ALOX to have a softer lube for this specialty application. In terms of effectiveness and time to apply, both the NRA formula and Liquid ALOX end up with the same overall expenditure of time.

Experimented with lubricants in the 6mm bore, I was searching for something in the 2300/2400 fps range to be competitive for wind drift at 200 yards. I found some work better than others, the NRA formula quit for accuracy above 2000 fps. Nice round groups without leading, but greater in size. I seem to have a kiss of death for lubricants, every time I attempt to standardize on a lubricant, it goes off the market;  M&N, Gray's 24, Jake's Lube, all have disappeared when I go back to order a larger amount, a two or three year supply. 

Country boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Wheel Weights posted this 17 May 2020

what is "dry powder lube" ??

 

Molybdenum DISULFIDE

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beagle6 posted this 17 May 2020

I use Lee Liquid Alox cut 50/50 with mineral spirits and dust with motor mica when dry to eliminate stickiness. This on regular ( not tumblelube ) bullets.. I keep velocity reasonable and don't have problems.

beagle6

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Paul Pollard posted this 17 May 2020

From CPA Rifles: Javelina Schuetzen lube, consisting of a 75/25 mix of Alox 350 and beeswax.  Sold in 1 pound packages perfect for pan lubing.

Bud,

You're saying that Schuetzen lube is 75% Beeswax and 25% Alox. I mixed a batch at 75/25 Alox/beeswax (from the CPA website) and it's really gooey stuff. Maybe I got it backwards. What is the magic of Alox anyway?

Paul

 

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Ross Smith posted this 18 May 2020

I second the one or the other, not both comment. You can over lube and cause un-necessary fouling. Also I think that alox was developed as a sort of metal varnish, not sure on the magic part. Been around for a long time

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Bud Hyett posted this 18 May 2020

Paul - You're saying that Schuetzen lube is 75% Beeswax and 25% Alox. I mixed a batch at 75/25 Alox/beeswax (from the CPA website) and it's really gooey stuff. Maybe I got it backwards. What is the magic of Alox anyway?

First, I got the ratios reversed, too much of a hurry to get outside and mow my lawn. (I've done this reversal trick before.)

Yes, it is gooey, and that is the what is needed. Like mixing oil and water, this is an emulsion more than a mixture and you almost have to beat them to get them together. That is why I buy the lube from Gail since I do not want to set up for this adventure. 

ALOX is a brand name in several combinations. The number identifies the mixture and is proprietary. It was originally used as the liquid undercoat for car frames (Ziebart) for rust prevention. However someone decided to try this as a lube, I do not know why. The NRA Handloading Guide has an article on the "new" NRA Formula from the 1960's if you have that book. 

I have been shooting SPG for both black powder and Schuetzen, but staying with SPG for black powder and going to Javelina for Schuetzen/Plain-base.

Country boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Shopdog posted this 18 May 2020

On some of my more "aggressive" varmint loads;

The very last op after wiping cases off with acetone(finger nail polish remover) is to wipe the bore ride section with LLA. Trying to get it on very thin,then about the time say a box of 20 are done,buff it to a shine.

These are "jacked up" into JB velocity loadings. If I ran any less lube on the body.....it would be none. And the lube is about as low tech as it gets. 3-1 beeswax to vaseline. The reason for the LLA is because of a cpl things.

One is if there's been a nose bump op that creates a noticeable,albeit tiny slightly enlarged nose at the tangent area of the ogive. The other is when running a hard "jam". This is why it's only on some loads. In effect,it allows me to run a touch tighter nose on bore riders. The "test" is simply one you don't,or can't fail in the field.... a stuck bullet trying to eject a loaded round.

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Coydog posted this 18 May 2020

I use alox mix with  lighter fluid for my 00 buck shot size down for to shoot in my 30 cal's it dry out well also 

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4060may posted this 18 May 2020

the Javalina Schuetzen Lube is 75% Alox350, and 25% Beeswax, if Alox 2138f is used ad 5% Microcrystiline wax, sticky and slippery, but works well for Breech Seating, too wet to use in a lubrisizer, I use it to pan lube

Alox 350 is different than Lee Liquid Alox,

Alox 2138f is different than either one, no longer available because of supposed carcinogenic features

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sghart3578 posted this 18 May 2020

I have used an RCBS LAM in the past but I have been using Lee Alox exclusively lately.  I thin the Alox 50/50 with mineral spirits and add very little.

 

I mean 1/2 teaspoon per 100 bullets.  They dry quickly.  You can barely see any coating.  I shoot up to 1900 fps with this.

 

And the Alox lasts a long time.

 

I see no need to use both.

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cove posted this 19 May 2020

I have been using Lee Liquid Alox for a lot of years and like it.  The longer I use it the less I use. LLA is very tenacious and my experience is that it builds up in the bore during a shooting session.  For a 38 special wadcutter load(around 700 fps) I use less than 1 drop of thinned LLA per bullet - thinned 50/50 with paint thinner.and think I could get away with less.  Today I was experimenting with a 30 cal breech seated wildcat with 200 grain bullets lubed only on the driving bands with 50/50 LLA. Results were encouraging. I guess this could all be summed up as "Less Is More", 

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Wheel Weights posted this 19 May 2020

That is the beauty of the Ben's mix. Thin coating and when tumbled in dry lube 100% dry.

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Brodie posted this 19 May 2020

I use 45/45/10 warmed and applied sparingly to warmed bullets, about a 1/2 tsp to a hundred or so.  I really like it.  The tumble lube dries completely is not tacky and works even at higher velocities.  Also, and this is very near and dear to my heart, it is CHEAP, and easy, and as they say "Less is more.".

B.E.Brickey

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max503 posted this 22 May 2020

I made the KISS version of that lube. One can of JPW melted with a heat gun mixed with one bottle of LLA. So far it has worked well in 9mm bullets. I'm using the Lee 95 grain FP as cast with a starting charge of Unique. Very accurate and no leading. That one batch should last me a long time. Only difference between that and straight LLA is I have to slightly warm the bullets before coating. No problem if you have a heat gun.

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Qc Pistolero posted this 3 weeks ago

I sell aprox 15K bullets/year.Not doing a business out of it but fulfilling some friends needs.Magnum handguns and 9mm bullets are lubed through my Star with the standard recipe 50/50 beeswax/alox recipe.

.38 spl wadcutter,45-70 and 30-30 rifle bullets get the liquid Alox(from LS Stuff)diluted at aprox 40/60(thinner/liquid alox).The rifle bullets are shot at aprox 1200/1400fps without gc and as far,nobody is coming back to me complaining that they lead the bore.When they come back,it is for reordering 500 more.I coat the bullets twice ;the first coating taking aprox 2-3 days to dry out,the second coating about half that time.Once a day,I simply put on a latex glove and roll them into the pan so that the alox gets evenly spread all around the bullets.Lubing 500 bullets takes but a few minutes...or many seconds depending on which you prefer.

After the solvent has dried away,the alox stays on the bullets quite sticky.Some of it will pack into the nose of the bullet seating punch,consequently driving the bullets deeper and deeper in the case.Not good!

To solve that problem.I simply put the bullets a few hundreds at a time in a small plastic container and spray them with talcum powder(am currently testing with corn starch so as to be more nature friendly and the tests so far do not show any difference).

The bores of the handguns and rifles are left shiny after shooting and as of now,I can say that I've shot over 500rds in my 45-70 without cleaning and so far the groups don't show any deterioration.To me(and my few customers)LLA and talcum works.

I've tried regular lube(50/50 alox beeswax in lube grooves) plus LLA and results haven't shown any improvement over one or the other;since I'm quite lazy,I've quit the experiment and went back home for a cold beer...or five!

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