Problem With Powder Coated .17 Caliber Bullets

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mashburn posted this 3 weeks ago

 Hello again,

Most of you know that I am in the process of experimenting with cast  powder coated bullets in .17 Cal. rifles. I have ran into a problem that I hope some of you Powder coaters can help me with, My NOE mold casts a perfect bore riding bullet both in PB and GC. I'm sure you are aware that when you size the coated bullet the nose section of the bullet isn't sized only the bands. When the bullets are sized and lubed with the regular way of using bullet lube the bore riding nose fits both of my rifles perfectly. My problem is my powder coating is too thick. It makes the bullet nose to large in the nose to fit the bore, if you force it in it would scrape the coating on the nose and probably set the bullet back in the case. I know I could make a nose bump die. I looked at the one that OU812 built and showed on the forum but if I have to do that I'm afraid I will shelve the .17 cast lead project because I have too many gadgets that I need to build and too many rifle projects under construction. And I hope that I live long enough to finish most of them. My question is; is there a way of coating the bullets and get a thinner coat. I'm using Eastwood powder and it is gloss black. I spent a lot of time getting the gloss black to work and its a  color that most people told me they had been unable to get to coat. I've solved that problem. Now, can anybody tell me how to get a thinner coat. Another color perhaps?

Thanks in advance,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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Spindrift posted this 3 weeks ago

Hello, Mashburn!

I powder coat a bore-rider for my .35 Whelen. The CBE360-300. This bullet has a slightly under-sized nose in the first place. What I do to ensure feeding, is use the NOE nose-size bushings. These bushings have a very limited capacity for down-sizing- 0,0005 maybe. I run the nose into a .349 bushing prior to coating, this cleans up mold seams etc. Then I coat, put a little Imperial sizing wax on the nose and size to .351. 

If you have a bore-rider that is correctly dimensioned in the first place, this is probably not going to work.

Another option could be the «hydro-dip» technique. You put some water in a bowl. Sprinkle some powder on the water. Grab the bullet by the nose, using appropriate tool. Then dip the bullet until the bearing surface is submerged. Stand on some non-stick foil, let them dry and bake them.

This will coat the bearing surface but leave the nose un-coated. I have never used this technique myself, just an idea.

Best of luck!

 

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mashburn posted this 3 weeks ago

Hello Spindrift,

Thanks for the reply and information. I have the perfect fit on the nose of the bore riders before they are coated. It would take quite a reduction by a nose sizing bushing.

I have never heard of the hydro-dip coating method. Thanks for that tidbit. I'm going to try it. I did, however when I was having trouble getting the powder to adhere to that bunch of problem bullets I told you about I did this experiment. I dissolved the powder in acetone or lacquer thinner and made a thin paste and jiggled them around in it. Both the lacquer thinner and acetone dried to quick and would get too thick in a hurry, but it would dad gum sure adhere. I will try this hydro-dip tomorrow. I thought about backing the bullets back in the neck and firing a few to see what happens. I'm pretty sure it would scrape the coating off. Maybe not only shooting some will tell.

Thanks again,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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Boschloper posted this 2 weeks ago

David:  

Could you open up the throat / leade to take the coated bore ride section?

That would ruin the barrel for non coated bullets but it would be a one time modification to the barrel instead of having to modify every bullet.

Wayne

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mashburn posted this 2 weeks ago

Hello Wayne,

I've thought of doing this and if I knew for sure that the powder coating experiment was going to be successful, I would do it .I have two .17 rifles and I am considering doing one of them with a leade  modification because it would help that particular rifle shooting jacketed bullets.it hardly has a throat at all. I'm going to do some shooting and experimenting before I change the throat. I'm going to try the hydro-dip that Spindrift suggested, and try some normally lubed bullets also. Thanks for your reply and information.

Thanks,

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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Boschloper posted this 2 weeks ago

David:

I too was intrigued by the hydro dip concept. I would like to try it on some long .30 caliber bullets. Much less of a commitment than modifying the leade. Let us know how it works out. 

Wayne

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mashburn posted this 2 weeks ago

Hello Wayne,

I tried the hydro dip today. Here is the problem- I use Eastwood gloss black powder and it wouldn't dissolve in water. After stirring and stirring the water at least turned black but would not  stay on the bullet base when dipped in the solution. I tried dissolving the powder in lacquer thinner, it dissolved a little better but wouldn't stick to the bullet. Several months back I had a batch of bullets that I couldn't get to take powder by the shake and bake method so I got to experimenting. I took a lid off of a cottage cheese carton and put a little  powder in the lid and tried both acetone and lacquer thinner. I stirred the solution up to a thin paste and jiggled the bullets around in the paste. It adhered real well but was too thick and when baked it was awful rough and too thick. For larger bullets here is a possibility: make a fairly thin paste, grab the bullet by the nose and with a small artist brush you could paint the driving band portion of the bullet very well. It would be awful hard to hold my little .17's by the tips. Man I would hate to do a thousand or so this way. The problem bullets that I had, after setting around in the shop for a month or so decided to take powder via the shake and bake method. I'm going to fire the PC'd .17's within the next few days and see what happens. Good luck and maybe you will have more luck than I did.

Mashburn 

David a. Cogburn

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mashburn posted this 2 weeks ago

Hello Spindrift,

You can look at my reply to Boschloper and see my results with the hydro-dip method .Any recomendations?

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 2 weeks ago

mr. mashburn .. interesting that aged bullets took the powder better.

i assume they oxidized ... so boil some in hydrogen peroxide ? ...

or cast them " too hot " so they frost.   ?? ...

ken

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Boschloper posted this 2 weeks ago

Ken:

I normally cast in the "almost frosty" to "just a little frosty" range and never have trouble getting the powder to stick with the shake and bake method. I wonder if there is a connection?

Wayne

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mashburn posted this 2 weeks ago

Ken,

I think in this instance that it was the mixture that the bullets were cast from instead of being too smooth. They were real smooth pretty castings Though. I may be wrong also. Thanks for the response and possibilities.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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45 2.1 posted this 2 weeks ago

I've read a whole bunch of articles about powder coating. It seems to have a rather large range of thicknesses dependent on just which type you use. That in itself brings up other factors.... some people want a reduced size mold to cast smaller dimension bullets so their coating comes out to the size they want. Another factor to consider is the relative thickness on the bullet,,, is it uniform or not? Taking a lesson from the jacketed match shooters in one of jacket thickness, the more uniform it is (that's in small ten thousandths units) the better it shoots. A good lesson in that is using a jacketed match bullet made in the early 60's versus now... there is no comparison as the 60's match bullets shoot barely equal to normal good factory loads, not the match loads now. The lack of uniformity in powder coat thickness on the bullet probably is having a large effect on potential accuracy.

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mashburn posted this 2 weeks ago

Hello 45 2.1,

Thanks for your response and ideas. As far as sizing goes if the bullet comes out of the mold only slightly oversize I coat and then size. If it drops from the mold quite a bit over size I size the bullet and coat and then size again.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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Spindrift posted this 2 weeks ago

Mashburn, Sorry it didn't work out for you. I've never tried the "hydro dip" technique myself, only read about it. The powder is not supposed to dissolve in the water, only float on the surface where you sprinkle it. I think the thinnest coating available is the Hi-tek. Never used that either. Ps sorry about the late response, I've been hiking in the highlands

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mashburn posted this 2 weeks ago

Hello Spindrift,

I goofed, I didn't understand that the powder wasn't supposed to dissolve. I'll try it again the right way. Thanks a million.

Mashburn 

David a. Cogburn

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