Questions on reduced loads

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James Nicholson posted this 3 weeks ago

I tried Ed Harris's 16 grains of 2400 in my 30-06, just installed new Douglas XX 24" barrel.  I got zero leading, 30 rounds fired, 5 patch clean up, however I had vertical dispersion.  One hole 25 yard sight in, 5 rounds, but at 50 yards I shot a 5 round line.  Each bullet right over the other, formed a 2.5 inch line up the target.  5 rounds at 100 yards was not too good, a jagged line, about 6 inches in length in roughly a 2 inch wide string.  Bullet was Lee 312185 sized to .3095.  of course the nose was sticking in the lands, but not to the extend that I could not eject a loaded round.  Would an increase in powder help to stop the vertical?  Any advice will be appreciated.

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fa38 posted this 3 weeks ago

 

I would try 14.5, 14.9, 15.3, 15.7, and 16.2 in 5 shot groups.  If one of those works better I would then vary the seating depth by moving the seater stem downward to get several different seating depths again in 5 shot groups with the best powder charge. 

Having the bullet into the rifling does not always produce the best groups. In fact depending on the case necks grip and the hardness of the bullet you may get a different seating depth with each cartridge.

 

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RicinYakima posted this 3 weeks ago

Another thought is that with such light recoil, it may take a little while for the action to settle into the stock and barrel into the channel. Normally 10 full power '06 loads will do it, but light loads take longer. Plus keep a eye on action screw torque. HTH

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BudHyett posted this 3 weeks ago

With a new rifle and testing, often the rifle settles slightly with each shot into the bags until it reaches a steady point "the bed" and is giving vertical stringing, The shooter and the rifle soon create a specific bed with the bags, the shoulder absorbing the recoil and the stock to cheek pressure. I often take twenty rounds of a load that I think might shoot well to settle the new rifle and determine it is repeating in the bags. 

Side Note: At Tacoma Rifle and Revolver one day, I was next to a shooter with his new Winchester 1885 Highwall in .45-100 shooting a cast 600 grain semi-point bullet. He was choreographing the loads, black powder, for velocity to determine his 600 and 1,000 yard settings. His new rifle slowly settled into the bags as above and soon his 600 grain bullet went through two screens. I did not learn any new cuss words, but there were several interesting new combinations. 

Country boy from Western Illinois, living in the Magical Pacific Northwest

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M3 Mitch posted this 3 weeks ago

I think that 16 grains of 2400 load is one that Ed has worked out to more or less shoot well in most any '06 class cartridge with a light "plinker" bullet.  I mention that because vertical stringing is frequently associated with a "too light" load of powder.  But in this case Ed has shot this load in a variety of different rifles, and the 16 grain charge is one that has worked well with most. I have personally used this in an '06 with the 3118 bullet, it makes a great plinking charge, although, given that I mostly shot at beer cans, that target would be more forgiving of some vertical stringing, being a lot taller than it is wide.

So I agree with the crowd here that likely your rifle has not "settled" and maybe a few more powerful rounds (not necessarily jacketed, but could be) might help settle the barreled action into the stock.  Something in the range of a 200 or so grain bullet and an IMR 4064 powder or similar burning rate.

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pisco posted this 3 weeks ago

hi 16 gr 2400 is a good load in my 303s i have no trouble with extraction 

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45 2.1 posted this 3 weeks ago

 Would an increase in powder help to stop the vertical?  Any advice will be appreciated.

2400 is position sensitive in a large case..... and that depends on case volume shape and shoulder angle. Group positions cycle thru vertical to circular to horizontal to the next cycle of vertical, circular, horizontal as your powder charge increases. either slightly lower or somewhat higher depending on the charge range for the powder might improve your grouping.

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R. Dupraz posted this 3 weeks ago

Vertical stringing at both 50 and 6" at 100.

First things first. 

Given a proper rebarrel job and chamber

The information that you have posted leads me to believe that there is something mechanical, for lack of a better word, going on here. Not the load, bullet, powder or tenth of a grain up or down.

Check the action to see if it rocks when screws are loose and barrel bedding for uneven pressure some where.

Then load and shoot at least ten full house jacketed loads and see how they group at 100. Not only to settle things but break in that hew barrel and use as a control for cast. Reread Rick's reply.

I have a Remington 700 Police heavy barrel .308 that I bought new several years ago. I had some high expectations for this rifle but when shot with cast at 100 yds the results continued to be inconsistent and disappointing with random grouping. To make a long story shorter, I ultimately skim bedded the action. Barrel was already free floated. Then loaded at least 15 full throttle  loads with Sierra 180 gr. match hollow points and shot them at 100.

Now the Smallest group with cast at 100 so far for five is just over 3/4". and a pretty regular 1- 1 1/4" for ten. . Still in progress.

Also, I have a 1903 that when certain bullets are jammed into the lands, it rudely tells me not to do that again !

 

R  

 

  

 

 

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James Nicholson posted this 3 weeks ago

As a follow up on the rifle, it is a commercial FN small ring mauser action.  Barrel is new Douglas 1 in 10,  in a Boyd's Prarie Hunter stock, glass bedded and pillared by my long time smith.  Barrel is #4 profile, free floated.  

I had an A/C shoulder separation in 1906 that never healed as well as I would have liked and I have 3 rotator cuff tears.  I tried shooting skeet left handed but never was able to get as good as right handed.  That is the reason for the light loads.  I have several boxes of almost max loaded 165 gr bullets from years ago big game hunting.  I think I will shoot about 10 or 20 left handed and then check it again with light loads.  Thanks everyone I appreciate your help and advice, I will keep you posted.

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R. Dupraz posted this 3 weeks ago

Now we are getting some where 

First, make sure that the front trigger guard screw is snug, not gorilla tight, but good and snug, and then loosen the rear tang screw about 1/4 of a turn or so before you shoot those jacketed and see what happens. 

Would be very interested in your results.

 

R.  

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 3 weeks ago

...sounds like it should work ... sooner or later ...  those 2 inch wide groups are a hint that it is just testing you like a naughty child ...  

dont forget that you can also load reduced jacktid bullets to test with  ...  myself i would load some 125 gr. speer with that 16 gr. 2400 or equivalent.  very mild recoil, and take the mysterious cast effects out of the puzzle ...  once you accomplish/establish the potential accuracy of the gun, you can get more into the nitty gritty of cast bullets.   once you know the gun is good, you have more confidence that there is a good cast load to be found.

also, the mj loads tend to remedy any little burrs in the throat from a fresh chamber ....

 

 

 

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max503 posted this 3 weeks ago

 

Having the bullet into the rifling does not always produce the best groups. In fact depending on the case necks grip and the hardness of the bullet you may get a different seating depth with each cartridge.

 This is the case with my Tikka 223.  When I seat the bullet to the lands there is very little neck tension and I get foot-size groups at 100 yards.  Seating the bullet ~.060-.080 deeper has tightened the groups to ~4".  Still not good, but better.

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