22 Caliber in the AR-15

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  • Last Post 05 December 2017
GP Idaho posted this 06 November 2017

Thanks to Joe B., Ed H. and Bob E. I now have on hand eight different bullet configurations in 22 caliber. Along with my moulds, Joe's moulds and samples sent by all it's quite a variety. I recently picked up a new Ruger 556 AR. I needed the lower but now I have an extra 223 upper I can dedicate to cast. Somehow of all eight bullets only the 80gr. NOE SP can't be used and keep the gas check in the neck. Even with the bullets powder coated all the others will chamber at a COL of 2.200 to 2.250. Now, I guess it's time to see if I can get my cast bullet loads to work in an AR. I'm going to start with the NOE 60gr. RN, the Saeco clone. Opinions on powder selection welcome. Gp

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David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 07 November 2017

gp,

PM me your list of CB molds. I have 10 of my own and have been experimenting with my AR in .223. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys & Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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OU812 posted this 07 November 2017

I think a 1/9 twist barrel would work good in the AR. Do not exclude the harder to find 1/12 twist...

 

 

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GP Idaho posted this 07 November 2017

OUB12; Thanks for the chart.  To be truthful, not a lot of thought was given as to what twist this carbine had. It's an eight twist by the way. I was tired of swapping uppers on my Rock River and went shopping for lowers. As it turned out, this Ruger carbine, complete was only about $80 more than the lower I was looking at and my thought was to sell the upper.. After some thought I decided to give the .556 cartridge a try and am once again back to swapping uppers.  I've been reading a lot of the older posts here on the forum and have ten rounds each with five different powders under the Saeco RN 60gr. GC bullet. Just have to make the range trip and see if I'm close with any of the loads. Will let you all know the charges if anything works as planned. Gp

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45 2.1 posted this 07 November 2017

You would do better with a cast bullet that fits your barrels throat well than pay attention to RPM theory. Under size bullets contribute to that idea. The real problem is barrels with minimal land height made for jacketed bullets. I size to 0.227" with the MP 22 Nato..... That bullet has shot many 1 to 1.25 MOA groups out of various DPMS, Stag and Armalite AR's. My load gives a little over 2,400 fps even out of carbine length barrels.

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Larry Gibson posted this 10 November 2017

Many get frustrated using cast bullets in faster twist ARs.  If you find yourself in the frustrated category then pay attention to the chart OU812 posted.  A medium powder such as 4895 with a Dacron filler will probably work best if you want functional reliability.  Best accuracy is going to be at functional reliability.

 

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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GP Idaho posted this 10 November 2017

First range tests today in the new Ruger556.  I loaded five different powders under a NOE 60gr. RN powder coated. Limited success but at least some. All loads but one short stroked. The load working the action and holding the bolt open on the last shot was 19.5gr. of H-4895. It was raining today so I didn't chronograph the loads Now that I know the 4895 load works at this speed, I'll drop the load down .5 gr. and check for function. Gp

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M3 Mitch posted this 29 November 2017

I have been wondering if anyone was getting an AR to function with a cast load that still gave good accuracy, thanks to all who have posted up about this.

I know a Garand is not that hard to load for using cast, (Thanks to data posted here by Ed) loads strong enough to work the action, but a Garand and an AR are pretty different in terms of gas system.

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joeb33050 posted this 30 November 2017

First range tests today in the new Ruger556.  I loaded five different powders under a NOE 60gr. RN powder coated. Limited success but at least some. All loads but one short stroked. The load working the action and holding the bolt open on the last shot was 19.5gr. of H-4895. It was raining today so I didn't chronograph the loads Now that I know the 4895 load works at this speed, I'll drop the load down .5 gr. and check for function. Gp

Why do you want the accurate load to function semi-auto?

I take the ejectors out of all cf guns so I don't throw the brass around.

joe b.

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GP Idaho posted this 30 November 2017

Good Morning Joe:  I know that most folks here are geared to the extreme accuracy thought and I hope this doesn't sound TOO much like an end of days prepper thought but my goal here isn't an extremely accurate target load, I have some very accurate bolt gun 22 calibers for that.  What I'm looking for is a functional cast semi-auto round that will run cleanly chambering each time without short stroking or leading the bore. If I can get the accuracy one would expect from a M1 30 Carbine, close enough. Gp

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Ross Smith posted this 03 December 2017

I'm not really on subject here, but: My friend with the dillon loader has several ar's and refuses to even think about cb's. Claims the lube, lead, and powder fouling will gum up his gas system. What say ya'll?????   Ross

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GP Idaho posted this 03 December 2017

Ross: If his gas system gets gummed up, he should clean it and try a different load. I'm not very far into this but so far no major fouling of the gas system has occurred. There are some folks that wont shot lead bullets in any gun. You know the problems that rear their ugly head when shooting lead bullets. lol Gp

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Ross Smith posted this 03 December 2017

GP;  He won't even think of it, let alone try it. Seems to me there's plenty ar shooters here. Thanks Ross

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GP Idaho posted this 03 December 2017

Ross: I truly believe that powder coating the bullets is the way to get an AR to run on cast bullets. I'd be a lot like your friend and not even think about it with the bullets wearing some concoction of pig fat and beeswax. Gp

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Starmetal posted this 03 December 2017

I think some are putting too much emphasis on gummy up and AR.  I have an AR 10 in 7.62 NATO that I'm shooting cast from,  more specifically the 311-180 Silhouette bullet, as desinged by 45 2.1.  I let the rifle go 600 to 700 rounds before pulling it down for cleaning and to see how the loads may have dirtied it up. It was very clean with only the usual powder carbon on the bolt piston tail. In fact I didn't feel it was much dirtier then shooting jacketed ammo. To add to the statement the loads were with duplexed slow surplus powder. Mainly 867. I have over 10,000 rounds through that particular rifle. What's interesting is I bore scoped it and the bore is in remarkable condition. This includes the gas port hole too. In fact 45 2.1 can attest to this as I sent him the pictures.  I also shoot such loads from my Colt HBAR in 5.56. Same thing it stays as clean, or cleaner, then the AR 10.  I'll add too that I have fired loads that contained a shotshell buffer and also Dacron.  I was very anxious to see if I could find any remnants of them. There was never any evidence of it in the gas system. occassionally I will run some jacketed rounds through the rifles to sort of "blow the carbon out of it" so to speak.  I also have another AR 15 in 6x45 that is amazingly accurate at almost jacketed veloities with another bullet designed by 45 2.1. I fire the AR 10 at jacketed velocities too. 

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Old Coot posted this 03 December 2017

I don't own an AR.  I am considering buying one, or maybe an AR 10 and an AR 15.  But, what I don't understand is why the gas system should be clogged by cast bullets and not jacketed.  Cast has been shot in M1 Garands, and Carbines for decades and we have heard nothing about clogging.  Gas operated shot guns use plastic wads, shot buffers, and lead shot ( in both wad cups and fiber wad stacks) and I have never heard of any clogging of the gas system of any brand.  The only thing I recall was when I was guiding and hunters who had their weapons lubed to warm weather standards experienced poor operation at low temperatures.  Also hunters with the then "new" Rem. 1100 who hadn't cleaned the receiver in a while had problems. 

All in all I must agree with Starmetal; the "clogging" of the gas system is just a myth started  by experiences in Viet Nam when the AR's were brand new and GI's were told they did not need to clean them.

 

B.E.Brickey

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GP Idaho posted this 05 December 2017

All around good day at the range today. The AR project is coming along. I fired 35 test rounds today. 25 were the 60gr. Noe RN (saeco clone) and 10 were the Lyman 225646DV that Joe loaned me, also 60gr. All bullets were powder coated and seated just short of max in the magazine. All cases were loaded with H-4895, 10 at 19gr. 25 at 19.5. The rounds with 19gr. cycled the action just fine but did not hold the bolt open on the last round. The 19.5 rounds did lock the bolt back. 30 of the rounds were sized .0255 in my lapped Lee push through size die, the other 5 were sized .027 through a Noe bushing. Fired cases from this Ruger carbine measure .029+ neck ID  so I'll use the larger bullets in the future. Three 10 shot groups went MOSTLY into 2" at fifty yards with a couple of each flying out  to 4" So, not great accuracy so far. There was no sign of any leading and the barrel cleaned up easily.  Other personal firsts today. I fired my first home cast Lyman sabot slugs today out of a break barrel 20g. and loaded and fired my first black powder substitute cartridge (Triple 7 fffg) 45-70 59gr. volume 47gr weight under a 350gr Noe FP all went well with the triple 7 lightly compressed and the burn was much cleaner than I expected.  Fun day Gp

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