Interarms-Rossi M92 clone in .44-40

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  • Last Post 06 August 2017
Ed Harris posted this 24 March 2017

I was curious who else might have one of these lurking in the closet.

I was searching on GunBroker for a Winchester '92 and it seemed that any original Winchester which had been dragged down  ten miles of bad country road bouncing behind a galloping horse by its saddle ring, with shot out bore, pitted exterior and cracked stock with no remaining original finish demanded a four-figure asking price and would require that much more expenditure in restoration and gunsmithing to make a useable rifle.  New '92 clones start at a grand and go up from there.  OK, I'm a cheap Ba$tard of Scots-Irish heritage, I admit it...

So when this one became available for half the price of a used Marlin, I decided why not?

Seems nicely turned out, doesn't rattle, slick enough, bright bore, 95% exterior, .448” chamber neck accepts cast bullets fat enough to fill its .4305-.431 groove diameter.  Did I just get lucky?

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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GP Idaho posted this 24 March 2017

Ed: I have two friends that shoot the Rossi M92s. These lever guns feed as well as any I've seen. Friend Wes's 357 trapper feeds any size and shape we've fed it from the small Lee 105 SWC in 38spl cases to the Noe 200gr in 357 cases. Thanks for posting the pics. Now there is one more gotta have on my scroll. lol Gp

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M3 Mitch posted this 24 March 2017

Most of the gats in my safe I bought 20 or more years ago, prices have crept up over the years.  It's hard to get a good new center-fire rifle anymore for much less than say $700.  I don't have a Rossi, but the ones I have handled seemed to be well-made.  I would say you probably did well to buy it for a good price. 

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RicinYakima posted this 24 March 2017

Contact Joe G., Ed, he is the only person I have ever seen with a Puma, but his is in .357.

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Gregor posted this 25 March 2017

httpshttps://store.stevesgunz.com//store.stevesgunz.com/

 

Ed,

I am glad that my first reply here is to help you, as you have been so great in passing on your knowledge and expertise to the shooting public.

I bought a Braztech Rossi/Taurus Model 92 .44 Magnum 20” blued rifle several years ago from SlugMasters in Leavittsburg, Ohio.  It was on my “List” of firearms I was interested in.  Inspection revealed flawless blue-black bluing and impressive wood to metal fit, considering the $350.00 price tag.  The wood is some sort of Brazilian hardwood that doesn't look too bad.  I had Nancy do the paperwork and took it home with me.

Cleaning and lubrication along with dry firing helped knock off some rough edges, but I wanted a slicker feeling rifle.  Steve Young has always posted on the Paco Kelly Leverguns Forum and is always helpful answering posts on the Model 92.  A pleasant phone conversation later led to me ordering his gunsmithing DVD, safety delete plug, metal magazine follower and ejector spring.  What a world of difference it made.  My rifle is butter smooth and slick as any adjective you want to use.

I have let many people with different skill levels shoot the 92, from young kids to Police trainers and they all have the same result- targets taken out.  Whether the plate rack at 50 yds. or the spinner targets, all get hit with little difficulty.  Just a fun rifle to shoot and it seems to fit anyone well. 

Winchester had a counter display circa 1950's that said “Get That Wonderful Winchester Feel” and that aptly applies to the Model 92.  Seems to just “feel right” and instinctively come up to the shoulder. 

I mainly shoot machine cast Magma 240gr LSWC from Mike at Mastercast Bullets in Enon Valley, PA with the shorter nose that feeds better.  My loads with Elmer Keith's 429421 do not feed well.  All jacketed bullets have fed flawlessly.

Only issue I have with it is when I "upgraded” the factory blued sights with Marbles bead front sight and semi buck horn rear the sights are “off” now and hard to zero.  My fault since I didn't order the combination that works correctly.  I like the rifle so much I wanted better sights to spruce it up.

You did very well Ed, the good karma that that you have spread over your years as a gun writer and experimenter have paid you back now.

 

 

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Duke M posted this 26 March 2017

I've got one. When I first shot it with my standard 44 wcf loads using .428” Lyman bullets it shot a 14” group at 25 yards. Most of the bullets keyholed. It dawned on me that Rossi wouldn't bother making a .427” barrel for 44 wcf and a .430"barrel for the 44 mags they made. I cast up some .429215's that drop at .431” and it is a fine shooter. I've killed three deer with it with 3 rounds. However they were pretty much the equivalent of the old 44 wcf High Velocity rifle only loads.

Duke

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Ed Harris posted this 26 March 2017

Good info.  Keep the comments coming folks!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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BigMan54 posted this 26 March 2017

I've got one in .44WCF, a 24” bbl rifle.  Bought it as a cheap backup for COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING about 22-23 years ago.  I cast a few LYMAN #42798 from pure lead to slug the bore. 5 of them averaged out at .4275 dia. I shoot the RCBS 44-200CM sized .428 dia. Cast from LYMAN #2.

I tried some .429 dia. bullets and they chambered a bit snug.  The .430 dia. I tried wouldn't chamber at all.    

I slugged  few friends guns at the same time. The one .44mag slugged at .430dia. The two .45colt slugged at .452dia. & .453dia.

They started a lot of folks in COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING. 

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun.

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Ed Harris posted this 26 March 2017

Who was the importer on your '92? and about when did you get it?  

I have not heard of any “tight” Rossi .44s or .44-40s, would yours be an LSI-Chiappa or UbertI??

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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dbh1956 posted this 28 March 2017

I've got the same Interarms Model 65 but in 44 Magnum.  Found it in the used gun rack at the LGS.  Haven't shot it yet, its getting d&t for a receiver sight now.  Also have two other Interarms Rossi's in 357 Magnum.  Markings are different from the M65 but they're Amdaeo Rossi too.  They won't feed a 38 wadcutter (too short) and some factory 357 Magnums are too long.  My daughters mainly shoot the Lee 125rnfp in 38 special.

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Dirtybore posted this 29 March 2017

I purchased my Puma M92 saddle ring Carbine new back in 1987 for $164.00.  I stole it judging from  today's prices.   I have two complaints.  i don't think much of the sights but haven't taken the time to replace them.  Also, when the spent cases are ejected from action, the gun tends to mistreat the case moth.  44-40 cases are very tender at the mouth and my rifle tends to ding them up worse that any other firearm I own.   I haven't slugged the bore so I don't know what the bore really is.

The rifle did very well when shooting Nosler 200 gr JHP with 8.5 and 9.5 gr of Unique.  These loads produced 1 to 1 1/2” groups at 50 yards.   22 gr of 2400 shot well at 100 yds but I didn't shoot it nearly enough to honestly say it shot incredible.  

Later I tried Lyman's 200 gr cast bullet but the best i could get with it was 2 1/2” to 4” whether I used anything from 7 to 8.5 gr of Unique.  

For some reason I lost interest and moved on to more interesting firearms.  Maybe that ought to be my next project but unfortunately, I already have a line up of things I need to get done first.  I have my nephews 7mm Rem Mag to sight in, my own 7mm Rem Mag to work up reloads for, finish working up loads for my daughter-in-law's 40 cal muzzleloder and solve it's 8” drop at 100 yds versus dead on at 50 yds.  

I was hoping to get more cast bullet shooting done in my military surplus rifles but that might not happen.  Last year i tried cast bullets in a Win. Mod 94 and came to all sorts of grief.  Lead was blasted back into the chamber and formed a ring I couldn't get out.  I struggled and struggled trying to remove that ring but finally had to get professional help.  I don't wish to repeat that fiasco.

Somebody above mentioned a proper sight for this rifle but didn't give precise part or type  numbers.  That would be very helpful.

Keep this thread alive because we might be able to help each other.  

 

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Ed Harris posted this 29 March 2017

Thx. Dirtybore on bringing up the dinged case mouths.  IIRC the Winchester '92 does this also.  I use a piece of .30-'06 brass to “iron out” the case mouths before sizing and done carefully that does a pretty good job.

Like you say, the .44-40 brass is thin and fragile at the mouth.  Modern calibers don't have this problem.  But it is those thin mouths which do so good a job of sealing and keep black powder fouling out of the action, UNLIKE .45 Colts, which in modern brass DO make a mess of the rifle!  Removable sideplates on the 1873 Winchester ease cleaning.  The '92 is a bit more of a chore, so I probably won't shoot BP in it much, probably just a little for academic curiosity and special occasions.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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BigMan54 posted this 30 March 2017

Ed, 

Bought my Rossi from EMF in Santa Ana, CA. Also got  "New Hartford” 1873 SAA clone in .44WCF 7 1/2 bbl. Yes the '92 is a Rossi from Brazil.  Without digging through receipts,  2002-2003 is as close as I can remember. The SAA clone also slugged out at .427 dia.   

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun.

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Buckshot Bowman posted this 11 April 2017

Dirtybore,

I have 6 Rossi 92's two of them in 44-40 your dented case mouths are from a way too strong ejector spring flipping the case so hard that the case mouth hits the extractor cut on the barrel breech  and  and possible a too strong extractor. You can swap out the ejector spring to a reduced power spring, and some careful grinding on the bottom of  the extractor. You probably have to use a bit of pressure to close the lever when seating the round, this is from the over strong ejector spring.

I did this to all my Rossi 92's, and now the cases land at my feet instead of the hedgerows down the road

 

Buckshot

DB

Contact Kiowa jones, Stevesgunz.com for parts and instruction

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PETE posted this 16 April 2017

Thought I'd put this in here even tho slightly off the main subject. Been trying to find some info on a Win. 94 AE in 44-40 I picked up at the Des Moine show last Sat. Gun appears to be unfired considering the amount of work it too to get the dred cosmoline(?)  out of the barrel, and how stiff the action is. Been trying to find some info om the  Net but not much  there. It's not a commerative(sp). Just a plain old blued SRC. Am wondering if anyone could tell me when they made these guns and anything else you can come up with.

Pete

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oscarflytyer posted this 17 April 2017

If the Rossi in 44-40 will eat .431s, I need to get one!  It will match my Uberti SAA clone perfectly!  Good to know!

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PETE posted this 17 April 2017

Oscarflyer

Your out of luck then. A .430 bullet won't chamber and a .429 is a snug fit. Slugging the bore gives a .428 dia. My understanding, from the guy I  bought it from, is that they only made this particular model for one year,. If so, then they must have made a bunch of them. One poster mentioned his rifles SS is in the 4 million range. Mine is in  the 6 million range. I'm trying to find out what year that was. Not much info on any of the Forums I looked at.  One message said they were made for the Australian trade, and another said they were made in  Canada. Mine is stamped “Made in New Haven Conn. U.S.A.". Apparently a lot of misinformation. It's not that I need the info. Just curious as to what the facts are.

Pete

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Ed Harris posted this 17 April 2017

Neck diameter of my Rossi .44-40 is .448” which DOES give enough neck release clearance for .431-.432 bullets in Starline brass.

SAAMI mean tolerance neck is .445” and will accept .429 bullets.  

The minimum SAAMI. .443 chamber neck won't accept .429 bullets loaded in Starline brass, but does with Winchester brass, which is thinner.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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PETE posted this 18 April 2017

Ed,

Thanks for the reply. Got my curiosity up so went and did some checking. I don"t have any way of checking the chamber throat but do have bullets .430, .429, & .428, and both Rem.(500) and Win (12). cases. 

Here's what I come up with. The neck on a loaded Win. rd. with the .430 bullet measures .4435. The Rem. measures .4455. The Win. rd. chambers OK, The Rem. doesn't.  Loading .429 bullets in the Rem. cases the neck diam. is .4445. This rd. doesn't chamber the last 1/4” unless you force it. Loading a Rem. case with .428 bullets the neck measures ,443 and chambers OK.

Of course YMMV depending on the individual rifle.

Pete

 

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Ed Harris posted this 19 April 2017

Sounds like you have a minimum SAAMI chamber, whereas my Rossi is at the max., which works just fine, considering its larger groove diameter which wants .431 bullets.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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PETE posted this 20 April 2017

Thanks Ed,

About what I figured. I've got a bunch of 200 gr. .428's and have been working up a load of B.E. with those. Just getting up to where the groups are tightening up...... 2” at 50 yds. Still have better than a  gr. to go before I get to the max. listed in the Lyman # 4 CB handbook. Then I'll try some of that Unique you recommend and see what happens.

Pete

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ed Harris posted this 20 April 2017

In the modern, strong rifles, Winchester '92 and modern clones, Marlin 1894, you can go up to 7.2 grains of Bullseye with up to a 230-grain bullet.  Very accurate and consistent load, these from my Fouling Shot article some time back:

Table 1

Side-by-Side comparisons fired the same day with representative .44-40 Factory and *Group 2 (+P) loads fired in two Vaqueros using the same .44-40 cylinder, with 19.5” H&R Single Shot rifle for comparison:

Ammunition all assembled in fireformed and resized Starline brass with Remington 2-1/2 primers.

Load Description_____Ruger 5-1/2"______Ruger 7-1/2"____H&R 19.5"Backpack Bunny Gun”

--------------------------------Cyl.Gap 0.003"-------Cyl.Gap 0.002"---------Solid barrel

Rem-UMC 200 JSP______n/f___________1017, 16 Sd______1231, 19 Sd___Pre WW2 factory Balloon Head

R-P 200-gr. JSP____872, 24 Sd_______942, 21 Sd_______1159, 29 Sd___1960s, Bridgeport, CT production

R-P 200-gr. JSP____867, 13 Sd_______920, 19 Sd_______1106, 32 Sd___Current Lonoke, AR production

W-W 200-gr. JSP___856, 19 Sd_______886, 29 Sd_______1105, 25 Sd___Current East Alton, IL production

Rem .427” 200JSP 24.5 RL7__902, 31 Sd__1044, 24 Sd__1232, 30 Sd___Safe in Winchester 1873s

*43-230G 1>0Sn/Pb 7.2 BE__997, 10 Sd__1052, 9 Sd___1199, 6 Sd____ +P,  1.60” OAL crimped top groove<br> <br> *200LFN WW .430” 18#2400_1215, 57Sd__1373, 41Sd___1577, 22Sd___+P Magma Engineering design.<br> <br> *43-230EB 1<img class=0 24.5 RL7___1127, 28Sd__1252, 32 Sd___1439, 25Sd___+P Modified John Kort Design

ColMeanV (gain) FPS-----------977-(REF)-----1061 (+84 over 5-1/2")-1256 ( +195 over 7-1/2")

*Group 2 +P loads for Ruger, S&W 544, Marlin and Winchester 92 only

 

 These are recent chronograph data from my Rossi 1892 for an upcoming Fouling Shot article:

Velocity of Typical .44-40 Winchester loads in Rossi Puma with 20” barrel:

Ammunition___________________Vel@15ft,  Sd, ES

Winchester 200 JSP factory load____1158 fps, 18 Sd, 51 ES

Handloads all in Starline cases, with Remington 2-1/2 primers

Remington 200 JSP .427", 24.5 RL7__1355 fps, 22 Sd, 74 ES Safe in Win. 1873

Hornady 200 XTP .430", 28 IMR4198_1642 fps, 20 Sd, 63 ES Group 2 +P

Matts .430” 215 LFN 28 IMR4198___1701 fps, 12 Sd, 41 ES Group 2 +P

Matt’s .430” 215 LFN 7.8 Red Dot___1273 fps, 15 Sd, 57 ES Group 2 +P

Matts .430” 215 LFN 35 Goex 3Fg___1172 fps, 28 Sd, 98 ES Safe in Win. 1873

Accurate 43-230G 7.2 Bullseye______1167 fps, 8 Sd, 25 ES  Group 2 +P

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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PETE posted this 20 April 2017

WOW!  Lots of good info Ed. Will print it out so I can study it more closely. Will look forward to your upcoming article in “The Fouling Shot” too.

Pete

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PETE posted this 28 April 2017

Nothing of interest with my Win. 94 SRC. Went through Bullseye and the best I could get was 2" at 50 yds. But in earlierr posts in this thread  it was mentioned that most 44-40 rifles would ding the case mouth on ejection. With  around 200 shots mine hasn't dinged a case yet. Maybe Win. finally figured it out.

Pete

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gregg454 posted this 30 July 2017

I HAVE TO ADD..

Back in med 90s Wife was found to have cancer. At that time store in Sioux Falls had like dozen  Rossi 92 levers. In that group was one 44-40. We had bills with doctors and a café had to close and put up for sale. long fight and months later café sold and wife was declared cancer free. One Rossi  was still at that store. The 44-40. I bought it. I saw it as a sign. I did not know the café would go broke and come back in my lap twice and the cancer would also come back. Had a lot fun shooting that lever. Never shot well. I glued with a glue THAT WAS A INDUSTRAL SHOE GOOP  mag tube to barrel under forearm and that help. That help for only like if you only loaded three rounds at a time. I found out gas check  bullets worked sized .431 worked best . Went to different dies to. I don't pay more than I can for dies but these were worth it. I will get back On this. This got me down to loading only three rounds at a time and 5 round groups about size of blue rock at 100 yds.   Now I think a turned plug of alum to press fit  in mag tube so mag tube spring can not push on front of barrel ..That my next action.  Hope after that can still get 10 rounds in rifle. If not its not a big deal for me. I'm not a cowboy action shooter. ALSO FOUND OUT FOR THE RIFLE TO ALWAYS FIRE EVERY TIME HAD TO GO TO RIFLE PRIMERS. I THINK FIRING PIN TAD SHORT?? OBTW I know that front sight on barrel band cannot be helping my world. Was this rifle worth it . heck yes.   

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giorgio the slim one posted this 31 July 2017

Of course a  shooting gentleman cannot do without John Wayne' favourite  Win 92 carbine . I had a Rossi 357 around 1980 and I shot with success at the big rats at the garbage dump along the river Po.

Now it is strictly veboten.

Now I have a couple of the Chiappa replicas, ,the one in 357 shoots 38specials in the Cowboy matches , and the 44mag shoots decent groups at 100 meters  bench rest , with a Lyman peep sight .I preferred the 44 magnum to bypass all the 44-40  brass and throat dimension problems .

Friend Bass owns a recent  production Rossi , with the funny safety , nice gun , but the Chiappa have better steel and wood finish . We prefer the 92 replicas to any Winchester 94.

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gregg454 posted this 03 August 2017

Ed Harris

What are the sights on your bunny gun??

Wondering what you thought of using a alum plug press fit in mag tube to keep

magazine spring from pushing on front of barrel ?  

 

 

 

 

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Ed Harris posted this 03 August 2017

Sights on .44-40 Bunny Gun are Tech Sights TSR200 http://www.tech-sights.com/ruger-products/ 

Not fooling with magazine spring, gun shoots as well as I can with open sights anyway.

 

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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BigMan54 posted this 06 August 2017

I'm gonna try to post this for the 3rd time tonight & hope it sticks.

Ed, 

I tried your .30-06 case to true up case mouths.  .44-40 & .38-40. It's ok, but I think I'll stick with my needle nose pliers.

Your .44-40 VAQUERO'S that can switch cylinders is pretty cool. My .45Colt VAQUERO'S will NOT switch cylinders.  Same with my 2 .357mag BlackHawk's or my 2 Single-Six's.  

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun.

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