Looking for load in 35 Whelen Lyman 358009 in 16" twist that works

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  • Last Post 07 February 2018
TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 11 January 2018

I'm trying again with the Lyman 358009 (about 277-278gr) in my Rem 700 Classic in 35 Whelen.  It has a 1:16" twist which is limiting for the longer bullets.  I'd like to see someone's successful load - which powder and how much.

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RicinYakima posted this 11 January 2018

My 35 Whelen is an NRA Sporter Springfield rebored to 1/16 by JES with 3 grooves. It shoots the 3589 just fine with 22 grains of SR4759. I am not a hunter anymore, so I shoot only for accuracy. I found no stability problems down to a load of 12 grains of Unique that was sub-sonic. HTH, Ric

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 12 January 2018

Will take another run at it.  Have 150 cases and bullets cast.  Next to lube/size/GC them.  No records of what I tired before so I'll start with 4227 because of it's similarity to 4759.  THANKS!

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onondaga posted this 15 January 2018

I'm trying again with the Lyman 358009 (about 277-278gr) in my Rem 700 Classic in 35 Whelen.  It has a 1:16" twist which is limiting for the longer bullets.  I'd like to see someone's successful load - which powder and how much.

 

Your bullet is is bout 280 grains. The Lee 2nd edition page 594 handbook has one powder that sticks out like a sore thumb and has the lowest pressure for that cast bullet weight in 35 Whelen. Accurate 3100 MAX for that bullet is a mildly compressed load of 57 grains at 2073 fps with a very mild pressure of 34,300 psi. that is terrific for cast bullets.

I'd go directly and get that powder and check it out first as the most promising propellant for efficiency and accuracy for your application with a 280 gr cast bullet in 35 Whelen.

Other powders will yield faster velocities but none of them is as low in pressure with a compressed load. The power is very impressive at 2000+ fps with a 280 gr bullet and in #2 alloy would shoot through a fire hydrant or any shot angle on the biggest Black Bear,  as out at 190 yards the load has 1100 foot pounds and will easily massacre a nasty charging Bear.

The pressure is so low, I'd start with a 100% available capacity load and see how it shoots before trying a compressed load. Don't go softer than BHN15 Lyman #2.

 

Gary

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GP Idaho posted this 15 January 2018

TRK:  If I'm not mistaken Accurate 3100 was discontinued and warnings issued some tine back. I personally like the powder and had no problems with it. Excellent choice in a 25-06 round. I still have a small amount but unless it has been rereleased or you can get some at a gun show it may be hard to find. Gp

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lotech posted this 15 January 2018

I had a Ruger M77 and will assume it had the 1 in 16" twist. While it wasn't the most accurate jacketed or cast bullet rifle I've ever owned, it did pretty well with the #358009. My notes indicate bullets were water dropped wheelweight alloy, sized .359":  

Best  loads were 28 grs. SR4759 and 30 grs. IMR4198, MV for both just over 1,700 fps.

30 grs. 5744, poor accuracy, MV =1722

34 grs. Reloder 7, mediocre accuracy, MV= 1834

with a linotype bullet, 32 grs. 5744 was accurate, MV= 1874

If I had this to do over, I would probably eliminate the water dropping as I doubt it was necessary or provided any advantage with  velocities in the 1700 fps range. 

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bjornb posted this 03 February 2018

A good writeup on Castpics.net by well-respected cast bullet shooter/hunter "Shuz":

http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/The%20358009.pdf

Here's the text of that writeup:

 

This mould and its predecessor, the Lyman 3589 is the most sought after bullet mould by mould collectors and shooters all over the world. On E-Bay it always brings the top dollar.

Many discussions have been raised on many of the Cast Bullet forums as to why Lyman hasn’t seen fit to reintroduce it again. In the mean time, many custom mould makers have turned out clones that worked very well. Mountain Moulds will make one that is very good and in the past, David Mos has also made clones.

When you look at this bullet, it’s an awesome design and says “use me for big game”. The .35 Whelen pops into mind and it takes a big .35 to handle it (.35 Remingtons need not apply).

I often wonder how many of the people that search for this mould have the means to launch it and use it accurately. How many cast shooters out there have .35 Whelens with a 1-14 twist. A 1-14 twist is the minimum it takes to stabilize this big brute for accurate shooting. Remington chambered its Model 700 Classic in .35 Whelen about 15 years ago, but they gave the rifle a 1-16 twist. Based on personal experience with the one I had, it would not stabilize the big 358009. When I decided to build a .35 Whelen, I chose a 1-12 twist and have been so happy with the choice ever since.

“The” hunting load in my .35 Whelen is the 358009 cast from 3 parts WW to 1 part lino and quenched in a bucket of cold water right from the mould. This gives an alloy of Bhn 22 and a weight of 278 to 279 grains. I size them to .3585 and use a Hornady gas check. The charge is 48g of AA 4064 and the primer is a CCI 200 LR. OAL for my rifle is 3.100”. Velocity is right at 2150 fps and the standard deviation is in the low teens. Accuracy is from 1 to 1-1/2” at 100 yards. This load has accounted for 2 bull moose and one bull elk so far. Shots ranged from 75 to350 yards on both standing and moving game, and I’ve only ever been able to recover one bullet. That bullet was from a bull moose shot at 100 plus yards this past hunting season (2004). The 358009 was recovered in the off side just under the hide; after it had penetrated the near shoulder bone. It still weighed 270.2 grains but had shed the gas check. That’s 96.8% weight retention! 3 other 358009’s fired at this moving bull passed right on through the heart lung area and never hit a bone! He only traveled about 50 yards from the first shot. The recovered bullet is shown below.

When I did the load development for this bullet back in 1998, I tried loads both above and below the 48 grains, but my gun was most accurate with the 48g load. If you are fortunate enough to obtain this design or a close clone, I’m sure you’ll be happy with it as long as your rifle’s twist rate is 1-12 or 1-14. 

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 03 February 2018

Shuz & I are in agreement on rate of twist - but I'm trying again soon when the cold weather breaks.

THANKS!  (I think you'll still be able to find my picture amongst the cast at castpics.net

 

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RicinYakima posted this 04 February 2018

I find it interesting that everyone with a 1/16 twist has no problems except those with Remington 700's. Is the Remington 700 a real 1/16 or did they use their standard 1/20 for the 35 Remington?

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Ed Harris posted this 04 February 2018

I agree with Ric that the Remington barrels may not be true as to actual twist.

If button-rifled there could be some slippage of the button, depending upon whether the button is pulled, or pushed, and whether or not the button is silver-soldered to the pull rod, and whether the pull rod is rigid enough to resist twisting when pulled through the bore...

My .35/30-30 has a 16" twist and stablizes #3589 with full charge loads which are a case full of IMR4064, compressed about 1/8" by the seated bullet, as if loading black powder.  The charge is about 31 grains, velocity 1700 fps from 20" barrel, which has a 16" twist, which I have measured with a cast-lead lapping rod.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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BudHyett posted this 05 February 2018

Realizing the discussion is about the Lyman 358009, I have a SAECO mold at 240 grains nominal weight. It has shot well in .35 Remington and .357 Herrett loading in both rifles and Contenders. My friend in Tampa, Florida says this is the bullet for alligators. 

Perhaps this could be a good choice for rifles with the slower twist. 

Country boy from Illinois, living in the Magical Pacific Northwest

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rmrix posted this 07 February 2018

Hmmm, now you have me going. I have a Remington Classic 35 Whelen. 16 twist-yes. Shot the Lyman 358 009 Okay. I had (this is about 1990) LBT make me a 280gr SP in the design like he does.

It shot very well. Full power loads of R-15 at 2350fps from memory is correct.    My memory is great for back then. For Now..... what was I writing about?

 

So like I say, you have me going and I will check the twist in the morning, if I remember. It is too late here now. Goodnight.

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rmrix posted this 07 February 2018

I remembered to check the twist of my Rem 700 35 Whelen this morning. Of course, I can not say all Remington production is the same as my rifle, but after fitting a tight patch in the bore and using a straight line on the rod indexed to 12 O'clock, numerous trips through the barrel averaged 16.25 inches to one turn of the rod. Subjective? Sure.

 

Based on my experience, 1 in 16" is plenty fast enough to support my two heavy cast designs. On a side note, I was able to develop a much more accurate hunting load with the 280gr  LBT bullet.  The Lyman 358009 was accurate to 100y or so, but by 200y, groups opened to three times the size of the LBT bullet.

 

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 07 February 2018

Just waiting here for a little warmer weather.  Raining now too.

 

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