Completely new to casting with no other reference material other than what I've read so bear with me please. I have a Lee 158 grain semi wad cutter tumble lube die. I have some ingots I made out of wheel weights. I fluxed them once with the only wax I had close by, a crayon. I used a stainless steel saucepan to melt the lead in over an electric single element buffet range. I used a Lee ladle to pour the lead into the mold. I had the mold and ladle sitting on the edge of the saucepan as it was heating up. First thing I noticed was the “stuff” floating on the top of the lead. When I would push it off to the side more would form. What is this? Some form of oxidation? The “stuff” would tend to stick to the edge of the ladle making a good clean pour difficult at best. I finally, after about seven or eight attempts, got a few bullets that filled the mold, but had some wrinkles in them. Not expecting perfect bullets yet, but need to figure out why its setting up on top. Not hot enough? When I got the die I did as the directions said and put never seize on the threads of the sprue plate bolt. Then I held a match over the mold itself to “smoke it” after cleaning the oils off with Naptha. I am looking forward to making good bullets, but need some help here. Also, are there any reference materials you can recommend to me. Thanks in advance.Charlie
Trouble pouring lead through the mold
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- Last Post 21 March 2014
Got a chance to weigh the bullets on Tuesday. Here's my results: Shiny- 157.8, 158.3 and 159 grains. Frosty- 158.7, 158.8 and 159.4 grains. I also had one I've been carrying around in my pocket for a couple weeks. it weighed in at 160, but it was a different pour on a different day. All wheel weights though.
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Quick question. Im not near my Lyman book. For that 158 grain .357 swc bullet, what is the load data?Thanks
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Frost, technically called surface porosity, on castings and detail under magnification are only a couple of things involved in the analysis of castings and the diagnosing of problems. I worked as a casting analyst, consultant and technical instructor for a gold refinery that alloys precious metals used in Dentistry. Plus I started casting gold in 1956 and bullets in 1957, It is a second nature to me to diagnose and fix casting problems. I actually got paid for doing that for a lot of years.....I had a blast! But, enjoying retirement now.
Gary
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Ok, got a chance to weigh them yesterday. They all weighed within a grain and a half of each other. That was good. Began explaining the difference in a frosty and shiny bullet to Bill while I was standing them up on a magazine on his kitchen counter. I looked down and noticed that some had a much more defined top ridge??? than the one next to it. I looked and the sharper edges were on the frosty ones. Bill and I were both impressed with our find. We verified that the shiny ones were a little “softer looking” on top than the frosty ones. Very cool observation if you ask me.
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It is good you can identify the differences. Controlling the differences is a valuable casting skill.
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Thanks Gary. Just confirming what I thought I had understood from you. I did check them all for size and they are all .358 or very close. Lengthwise they are all the same as well. Haven't gotten a chance to weigh them. Should be able to check that this afternoon.
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Your picture is clearly demonstrating what I have made an effort to explain and define for you:
The top 3 bullets are too shiny, the castings were done with too cool of a mold, too cool of flowing alloy temperature into the mold or both. These 3 cool pour, shiny bullets have less accuate fill out than the lower 3 frosted bullets. These 3 cool pour shiny bullets are likely up to .001” smaller in diameter than the lower 3 frosted bullets. If you weigh the total of the top 3 shiny bullets, they will also be lighter in weight than the lower 3 frosted bullets.
The 3 lower frosted bullets are what I try to get all the time for best fill out detail and largest as cast bullet diameter when that is what I want and need. I actually like mine a little more frostier than your better 3 lower bullets. I run likely 25 or so degrees hotter pot and I cast faster too, keeping the mold hotter. That is why my best bullets are frostier than yours.
Gary
You can still see the frost on the noses of these bullets of mine where they have not been sized and Aluminum gas checked, they are NOT shiny and have maximum detail fill out:
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Ok. So here's some I cast the other day. I just picked 3 that we're shinier and smoother and 3 that we're not. What might be the reason for the difference? 
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Ok, here goes with the picture thing.
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Gary
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Very nice. That black flint resembles obsidian which I saw a lot of growing up in Oregon.
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I have good friends in Missouri that I share another hobby with..,,I trade rocks with them for my hobby of Flintknapping. I make arrowheads and replicas of primitive stone tools out of a flint that is native to where I live. I live on the Onondaga Escarpment in Western New York. My area is named after an Onondaga flint formation that is a low ridge from Detroit to Albany , NY, then South to PA. It runs right through my neighborhood in WNY. The Onondaga people are a Clan of the Seneca Nation of Native Americans, the name of the rock came from them.
Onondaga Flint is my favorite rock to work with. Here is some of my work in Onondaga Flint:
Raw Onondaga flint from my backyard then some points I made from it:
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Gary, I saw a reference to your screen name in Missouri this evening. Near Rolla I saw a sign that said something about “Onondaga. Any relation? Just curious.
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I find it easiest storing my photo in Photobucket and dropping IMG codes in my posts.
Gary
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As it turns out, my wife had other plans for me on Sunday after church. I “got to” build shelving in her closet. No more casting for me for a while. Going to St. Louis on Thursday for the weekend and finishing up the honey do's before that will leave no time for casting. I need to read up on how to do the pictures. Not done any pictures yet. I've got some on my phone and even have one in my pocket (is that weird?) but not sure how to post it.
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Did you find the fluidus point temperature of your alloy?
Dropping all your sprues into a pan and saving them till you get to the bottom of the pot to start a new potful with ingots and sprues is a good idea. Dropping sprues into a hot running pot while casting instantly drops pot temp . You can see that with your thermometer and then notice how long it takes the pot to come back to the working temperature you have set on the pot. Put sprues in when you start a new batch.
How about some close-up pictures of your bullets, even the bad ones. I can diagnose casting flaws very well and may be able to help you more.
Gary, retired casting analyst
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The leak type you describe sounds like impurities settling in the valve seat. Tapping the valve rod can help but may also dent the valve seat causing more leakage. Keep a small screwdriver very close and handy when casting and use it to rotate the valve rod vigorously a few times . Then lift the valve by the handle and let a small squirt of metal out the spout into your catch pan or ingot mold. The impurities that were in the valve seat will loosen from the turning and get squirted out when you open the valve.
I generally find myself doing what I have described 3-4 or more times a potful when casting. This is NORMAL. Tapping on the valve rod that repeatedly will damage it and damage the sealing surfaces. Don't do that. I suggest you do the turning and flow the gunk out thing I described instead of your tapping. The pot instructions describe this too but don't give the user a realistic idea of how frequently the valve cleaning is necessary; for me it is usually 3-4 or more times a potful.
You can see my little screwdriver in my casting setup picture right next to the pot base. I keep it very close by for just what I have described. Barely visible behind the screwdriver is a paper clip wire I use with a small pliers (pliers not in pic) to clean bottom pour spout of gunk when flow gets obstructed. You can push the wire up and down the spout hole and work it around to clear gunk. You can also push up and open the valve so be careful of splatter when doing that. I will push it up intentionally to clear loosened gunk at times. use pliers, gloves and a catch container doing this routine maintenance
The impurities that settle in the valve seat are either from impurities in your metal or from scraping the pot bottom/ sides and not skimming enough after stirring/fluxing. Using clean metal and good fluxing/scraping, stirring and skimming methods will lessen crud in your valve. some crud is NORMAL and takes care to keep it to a minimum and out of your valve.
Have fun, be careful and safe.
Gary
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I did a very little bit of casting this afternoon. I set the pot to hi, and allowed the ingots to begin melting. The thermometer reached 700 before it started coming back down and I turned the temp down to about 4 on the dial. After watching it a few minutes the temp began to creep over 700. I bumped the dial down to 3. Still creeping above 700. Set it down to 2 and the temp normalized around the 650 mark. I started casting and the valve leaked a little after some pours and a good amount after others. I figured a little love tap on the top of the valve arm might correct that issue. Sure enough, no more leakage. Made some good looking bullets. I'll get a closer tomorrow. See how nice they look.
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I have helped a number of people get started with the same Lee 4-20 pot. It is always a little scary starting with such high temperatures, The most common error is pot temp and mold warm-up.
There is an ideal temp for the metal in your pot for any bullet alloy. 100 degrees above the fluidus point of the alloy. The ideal temp for molds is 100 degrees below the fluidus point of the alloy.
You determine the fluidus point of your alloy by heating alloy very hot past melting , turn the heat OFF, then use your thermometer to determine the temp that the alloy exhibits the very first signs of any solidification at all. That is the fluidus point where the alloy transitions between liquid and solid. Raising your pot temp 100 degrees F. above that fluidus point is the ideal temperature for casting of any bullet alloy.
Mold temperature is controlled by casting cadence. . 1 or 2 cavity molds need to drop bullets 3 times a minute for maintenance of a good working mold temperature.
Gary
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