Winchester 1892 .44 Mag.

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  • Last Post 25 December 2023
PETE posted this 31 March 2016

Going to take delivery in a coupla days on the above in the Short Rifle model (Miroku version). I looked all thru this section of the forum and couldn't find anything specific of this rifle & cal. So thought I'd start a thread on it and see what comes up. Have been doing quite a bit of looking around the Net but most of the info I could find dealt with other brands with very little specifically on the Win. I was really surprised at the variations in the twist rates on the various makes. That's the thing that confuses me the most. Not sure of the why on that. I've got the Lyman 429241 which I use in a Ruger .44 Spec. & a S&W M29 .44 Mag. It'll run .4305 cast out of Lino and weighs a little over 235 grs. Hopefully that will work in the Win. 92. So if anyone has any experience on this rifle and caliber I'd like to hear from you on your experiences. Pete

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Bud Hyett posted this 25 December 2023

A Marlin 1894 .44 Magnum I owned in Illinois thus it's about 40 years old with Micro-Groove rifling. Micro-Groove shoots well if you fit the chamber leade. Harry Pope barrels are shallow rifling and they shoot well. Frank Marshall called this type of rifling "Micro-Pope."

I picked up an Ohaus three cavity copy of the Keith 240 grain bullet at a gun show and this with 20.4 grains Alliant 2400, wheelweight scrap alloy, sized in a .431 die that just touches the bullet and crimped on the crimping groove. This shoots well, under two inches at 100 yards, if I do my part. This load also shoots well in my Ruger Super Blackhawks. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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9.3X62AL posted this 24 December 2023

I concur.  I've had a Miroku Winchester 1892 since 2012 or so, and I love the thing.  I bought a 250 grain round flat-nose GC design mould from Accurate Molds to fit it, and it performs very well.  Twist rate is about 1-24", as best I can tell.  Throat diameter is a few tenths over .430", so I size castings to ,431" and use Hornady .430" 44 bullets when j-words are indicated.  With these bullets it is a 2"-2.25" rifle at 100 yards, open irons.  

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LeverGunner posted this 24 December 2023

A little older post, but I came across it while looking at for will and won't work in a Winchester 92 in 44 Magnum. The RCBS 44-250-K and the 44-240-SWC (gas checked) will not feed in mine in magnum brass. Both cycle well when loaded in special brass.

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PETE posted this 08 April 2016

Gary,

Looked over my stock of 310 dies but nothing there that would work with the .44 Mag. Do have a complete set for the .22 Hornet! :)

Didn't know they still made them anymore. But see Lyman has them so ordered up a set.

Pete

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PETE posted this 08 April 2016

Picked up those 200 gr. MBC Cowboy #5 bullets today. Here's a picture of one of the bullets and a round loaded to 1.600” Bullets mike a strong .430” As you can see just to get the length I did is due to the case length being .005” under trim to length. Could have set them in a lot further I suppose but this works and has a strong crimp. Nothing special about them. Just  something to shoot till the Accurate mold comes in. Pete

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PETE posted this 07 April 2016

Gary,

Not a bad idea. Will give it a try. Normally at our twice monthly SS matches we breech seat so what you suggest I hadn't thought about. Would be a better way of doing it as just seating a bullet in a case and slowly seating it deeper I'd probably miss the exact point where the bullet was tight up against the ball seat without a lot of fiddling around.

But as I've mentioned, single loading for maximum accuracy is still a ways down the line. Be a month before The Accurate Molds mould shows up, But maybe in a few days I can get some of those Cowboy 200 gr. bullets from my buddy. Then it's just waiting for some decent weather (temp/wind) to show up and I'll be off to the races.

Pete

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PETE posted this 07 April 2016

M3 Mitch,

Don't have that issues of Gun Digest, but one of the other Forums I'm on has a “Sticky” telling how to go about loosening up the barrel bands. In fact, reading that “sticky” is what made up my mind to get the short rifle instead of the carbine. The short rifle doesn't have barrel bands.

Loading at the range would be a good idea. I havee a couple of sets of dies for the Lyman 310 tool, and also the Lyman Junior Press that takes the same dies as the tong tool. does anyone know if they make tong tool dies for the .44Mag./Spec., or something I can get ahold of that could be used to just seat bullets?

Arnie,

Got a Harrel Powder measure I use to load at our SS matches, altho none of us change the measures much from known accuracy loads for the particular rifle we're using on any given match day. So never thought of what you guys are suggesting. THANKS!! I could pre-set the measure for different powder charges and powders at home so I wouldn't have to take a scale along. I already have a notebook with a lot of wgt.'s for quite a few powders I use.

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onondaga posted this 07 April 2016

Pete,

"next in line, is to take a bullet and seat it long in the case and single load it so I can see how far out the ball seat is.

That is one way to do it and find where the ball seat is. Another way is just drop a sized, not lubed bullet in the chamber with the muzzle down and slap the receiver hard a few tomes to settle the bullet in the ball seat. Use a short dowel to hold the bullet from the base with a 1 pound push then measure from the muzzle to the bullet with a dowel and mark flush at the muzzle. Remove the bullet and rod then close the action and UN-cock the hammer. Use the rod again but measure to the bolt face and again mark the rod flush at the muzzle.

Between the two marks is your reference MAX LOA for that bullet at first contact with the ball seat. For single shot rifles I increase that MAX LOA reference .010” to engage the ball seat for cast bullets. This will work for single feed of a lever rifle.

Gary

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beltfed posted this 07 April 2016

Good idea..."don't forget a powder measure/scale"beltfed/arnie

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M3 Mitch posted this 07 April 2016

I think I mentioned this before, but if you can find a 1965 Gun Digest, there is a good article on “accurizing” lever guns including carbines in it. I remember one point was to make sure the front barrel band is tight on the magazine tube, but not the barrel itself. If it's tight on both (the article says) the barrel will “grow” lengthwise as it heats up, generally walking groups lower as it heats up.

I know you are not interested in doing any mods to your gun right now Pete, but wanted to put that out there both for you (if you see groups walking low as barrel heats up) and for the rest of the crew.

There is a lot more to the 1965 GD article than this one tip I can recall off the top of my head, worth looking up if you can find it.

You might want to consider loading at the range, given it's far from home, bring a hand press, one of the Lee presses that set up on their own storage box, or a Lyman 310 tool to the range, bring bullets, primed sized brass, and a couple of three powders you want to check out.

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PETE posted this 06 April 2016

Gary,

Right now, or next in line, is to take a bullet and seat it long in the case and single load it so I can see how far out the ball seat is. If it's so far out it would exceed the OAL for functioning I don't see the use of bothering with it right now.

Of course if I want to see what the rifle is actually capable of then I'll keep your ideas in mind. But that's a ways down the road. It's a 70 mile round trip to the range so it'll take a few months just to find a decent load at one trip a week.

Pete

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onondaga posted this 06 April 2016

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=59>PETE Chamber cast alloy is so low temp melt that children's modeling clay makes a suitable blocking putty to protect your rifle when pouring a chamber cast. You can shape clay to block out area you want protected and you can shape an entrance funnel sprue with the clay. This is how it is generally done.

Your picture in post 72 of the un-crimped round shows the case mouth edge on a bearing band. Bearing bands are a suitable area for either roll crimp or taper crimp to cast bullets. Go back and look at my picture in post #26. You see the case mouth end on a band in each of the 3 rounds with different bullets pictured. I have used both bringing flare back to zero and crimping for these rounds on a driving band. Either works fine on all 3 bullets.

You don't have any problems for chamber casting or crimping, just make a decision and do either/both.

Gary

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PETE posted this 06 April 2016

Ric,

Strange as it may seem I would like the Win. to work as a repeater. Never know when you might be charged by a herd of “Grinnies". Ken might know what they are as the name is more a local tradition. They are an extremely vicious critters and charge at the slightest provocation. They can do serious damage to your ankles if your not careful.

Your right with your suggestions on modifications, but I'm really only interested in getting it to shoot now. One of the reasons I got the short rifle model is it doesn't have the barrel bands, which I understand are a problem. Easily solved, from what I read, but still a lot work I wouldn't think needs to be done if I can get away with it. Not sure how to go about getting a chamber cast as there's not a whole lot of room to work with in pouring one. Hate to spill anything into the action.

Right now I'm just looking at this rifle as a “fun” gun. From the number of hits we've had on this thread it appears a lot of others are interested too.

Pete

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PETE posted this 06 April 2016

Here's what I come up with taking the Lyman 42798 bullet and shoving it back into the case so that it would give me the correct OAL to work in the Winchester. Didn't have to size the bullet as it cast .431. I pushed the OAL down to 1.600” which is a little under  the recommended 1.1610 max. Didn't try and put any crimp on it. Just enuf to take the flare off the mouth. Don't really plan on using this setup. Just wanted to see if there was any room left where I might be able to put a crimp on. Possibly a taper crimp like we put on the ,45 ACP. Pete

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RicinYakima posted this 05 April 2016

You want your lever gun to function as a repeater? My goodness!

You are limited by OAL, chamber diameter, leade, nose profile and feed angle. For the little I've worked with lever guns, you are much better off doing the traditional mag tube modifications, stock and fore end fitting, etc, as trying to tune ammo is the least important for hitting at 100 yards more than one shot a minute.

FWIW, Ric

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PETE posted this 05 April 2016

I,ll agree with what Ed & 452.1 said as far as bolt /single shot guns and revolvers/pistol go. Fit to the bore is essential. But when it comes to lever guns you'll have to tell me how you go about fit to throat and OAL where everything is controlled by the need to function thru the action, which I'm finding out..

I suppose you could single load it but that defeats the purpose of the gun.

Pete

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Ed Harris posted this 05 April 2016

Thank you!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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45 2.1 posted this 05 April 2016

Ed Harris wrote: There is no substitute for having bullets which “fit". There is a thing called static fit and one called dynamic fit..... both are different animals involving different concepts..... none of which is talked about much here. You cannot depend upon “bump up” being reliable with smokeless powder in any alloy harder than 8 BHN. That same 8 BHN air cooled alloy, provided it has antimony and a trace of arsenic, can be heat treated (in the 20 BHN range) to bump up the same at higher pressure with equal reliability and accuracy.     

With custom lathe-bored molds of highest quality being plentiful and affordable, I cannot understand why anyone would buy a cherry-cut mold produced using 19th Century technology and then have to either “Beegle” it, lap it or excessive size it to make it fit." This is the understatement of the year. There are a whole multitude of undersized ill fitting molds out there that people use with no realization of how bad they are. The above comments in bold type only are there to flesh out what Ed said, not to dispute anything he said.... which is true.

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beltfed posted this 05 April 2016

Why did the computer put in all that junk?

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beltfed posted this 05 April 2016

style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"Ed is absolutely right about not depending on bump up with hard bullets and smokeless. style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"After noting the small size of my lyman 4 cav  42798 and the poor shooting in 44m or M92, I ended up using bullets from this mold, cloth patched in a 45 cal muzzle loader. they shot quite well. Then sold the .45 ML and sold the mold to a friend with a 45 ca ML style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"So,now, I only shoot the 429434 HP or 429215 bullets in the M92.   style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"beltfed/arnie

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