PLAINBASE 30-06 LOADS

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  • Last Post 06 November 2009
linoww posted this 21 January 2008

I have always used 2400 in the 11-14 grain range.Looking for anybody who is doing PB shooting in the '06.I have four bullets i am working with now. 

The line-up-- LBT 190 Spitzer , Lyman 308241RN 140g , Eagan MX330KBR (sans GC) 165g and SAECO#630FP 140g. 

I have shot TrailBoss one time and it did fair with the SAECO #630. I have shot 700x and it also did OK,but 2400 seemed the best.

Not using fillers(dacron etc..) or “P” checks at this time.

I am getting 1.5 to 2.25” at 100 for 5 shot groups with the good loads with a 1903 Springfield with a Lyman 48 rear sight.I have shot some 1” groups,but not many.

The point of it is to get a competitive load for 100 yd CBA Military Match shooting without a GC. At $25 per 1000 for little copper cups its worth the effort!!

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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tturner53 posted this 06 November 2009

Hey Wineman! I'll get your mold back to you this coming week, with some bullets. I don't know how much help this is, but I've been having very good luck with Bullseye for PB loads, ala Ed Harris style.

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Wineman posted this 06 November 2009

I guess each rifle has a different personallity.

I had a pile of LEE 312-160TL that were visual culls: fins, dimples, streaks etc that I had intended to remelt in the next run. They were cast of modern WW+2% Sn and air cooled. Well I thought what a waste of time to have cast these and not use them, so after a search or two I decided to use Ed Harris “subsonic” Military Rifle load for some practice work with my M1917 Eddystone.

I sorted them +/- 1.5 grains and then lubed them with LLA with a dollop of Johnsons Paste Wax and some mineral spirits. These were left plain base and unsized then loaded over 9.2 grains of Unique and a WLR primer in some 4x fired KA-72 cases that had been neck sized. The OAL was just to kiss the lands at 3.045".

I shot a CMP “A” Course at 50 yards with a reduced target and used a sight setting of 600 yards for a 6:00 hold. After the two prone stages (25 shots) the accuracy had been fair with horizontal stringing which is probably my fault for trying to do too much at one time: new load, getting dark, not used to the M1917 for this course (usually a M1). I decided to give the barrel a patch with some Ed's Red and whoa, I almost could not push the patch through the leading.

The M1917 slugs with a V-block at 0.310 x 0.301 but it has a K31 like throat or rather a lack of throat as the lands start almost immediatly after the mouth of the case. The bore is a bit dark but the crown is good. It shoots jacketed pretty well and is good for 90's on a SR at 200 yards prone with a sling and HXP Ball. It was cleaned with Sweets after the last jacketd shoot. I have shot the same mould with a GC and 17.5 grains of A2400 and kept to 3” at 50 yards counting fliers for 10 shots. Not great I know but this was not after any real load development either.

Based on my research the 9.2 grain load of Unique did not appear to be too hot. I did however use a normal 0.306 mandral in the LEE Collet die; 312-306 is 0.006 so probably too tight a grip on the bullet. I did pull one and it did not appear to be swaged down by the tight neck. There was only one coat of LLA+JPW.

For the next time:

More lube, less powder, and expander from a 303 British or should I just remelt and stick with Gas Checks? I am not really concernded that the accuracy may not be stellar but I just want a load for practice and not have to work too hard after firing scrubbing all the lead out.

Wineman

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KenK posted this 24 May 2009

George, I finally got my 10 shot 2” group...by the skin of my teeth.  It looked to be right on 2” with my ruler so I measured with calipers and it came to 1.980.  Maybe not that high of a goal but a goal met anyway.  I tried to back it up today with another but one slipped a little to the left and one a little to the right that opened it up to 2 1/2"

This is with my Lyman 311672 that “Hollow Point Eric” bored out the gas check shank on.

You need to try some of this Viht powder.

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WILDCATT posted this 13 May 2009

I have the lyman 311291 and use 13 gr RED DOT.at 100yrs the bullets touch.the Lee 312-160-TL does the same.

I do know the 311291 cronys at 1680 in my 1903<14>.

I understand that was an ED Harris recomendation.but I got it from a shooter in RI.

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linoww posted this 29 March 2009

KenK wrote: George, I know you don't like the measurements of the RCBS Cowboy bullet but I keep coming back to it and it continues to shoot better in my 1903 than anything else.  Also defying conventional wisdom, it shoots better seating the crimp groove down to the mouth of the case.

I My 308241 shoots seated deeply also.I  have to give the RCBS bullet a try it looks like.I think 10 in 2” AT 100 is a hard thing to get consistently.I get many into 1.5” with hte 308403 or a bit under,but they're usually followed by 3” groups .

 

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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KenK posted this 29 March 2009

George, I know you don't like the measurements of the RCBS Cowboy bullet but I keep coming back to it and it continues to shoot better in my 1903 than anything else.  Also defying conventional wisdom, it shoots better seating the crimp groove down to the mouth of the case.

I still can't quite crack that 2” barrier for 10 shots.  This one measures 2 1/16".  Although, according to local weather the wind was gusting to 22 mph while I was shooting. 

I'm really liking this Vihtavuori powder.  This is 8.2 grains of N330. 

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linoww posted this 14 March 2009

Thanks for the link to the old manuals.Looks like a good place to cost me alot of money!

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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j35nut posted this 09 March 2009

Just a thought   Some of you might find it interesting reading.   Ideal put out a little book/ pamphlet 32 pages.   "Instructions on how to load and reload shells for the 30-40 KRAG and other high power rifles, 1904."   Deal's entirely with plain base bullets, alloys, etc. of the time.   Dr. Hudson's trial's and successes, along with different top shooter's of the time.   You can get your copy here.   http://www.cornellpubs.com/Templates/Historic-A-IDEAL.htm>http://www.cornellpubs.com/Templates/Historic-A-IDEAL.htm   http://www.cornellpubs.com/Templates/Historic-A-IDEAL.htm>Links to Ideal Catalog Reprints by Cornell Publications   Have fun

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linoww posted this 09 March 2009

"The 13 shots with BE went 2 1/4” wide and 7” tall”

ouch!!

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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KenK posted this 09 March 2009

I like the long days too.  Work is ten minutes from home and then another 15 seconds from home to the “range".

The 13 shots with BE went 2 1/4” wide and 7” tall. 

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linoww posted this 09 March 2009

KenK wrote: Got 13 shots loaded with 8 grains of Bullseye to shoot this afternoon when I get off.

Got to love the clock change and the extra shooting time after work.I'm lucky as my range is 5 minutes from my work.I even slip in shooting break lunch once a week.

I have a Hoch PB that looks very much like your SAECO.it goes .300-.309 and is too small for my military guns.it casts beautiful and i need to find a gun to shoot it in.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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KenK posted this 09 March 2009

I've been shooting three foulers and then shooting ten for “record".  I think the first shot probably averages 50-50 going in the group or not. 

I can't pin down when the flier is going to come, it seems just as often to come in the first five as the second five.

In the last target I posted the flier came on shot 7 or 8 and the overall group would have been under 2” if I had fired fired the foulers into the group and quit at ten.

Got 13 shots loaded with 8 grains of Bullseye to shoot this afternoon when I get off.

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linoww posted this 09 March 2009

Any fouling or sighting shots before you shoot your string?  yes

Are the flyers in the first couple of shots?     no, in fact most often the two or three sigting shots would have been better shot into the group.

Do the flyers occur with any regularity in the string? Not really,but more often not at the start of the group.But not enough to really say there is a tendancy of anysort.

I have shot in near zero wind conditons and have had my similar grouping problems on those days as well. The wider shots do not appear to always be wind reading errors, in my case at least.I am leaning towards bore conditon and loose military chambers with the Pope bullet .

George

 

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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CB posted this 09 March 2009

Not having read this post before I guess I should start my comments beginning with the first post..

Those damn flyers! Welcome to the world of CB shooting! Flyers are a pretty much normal part of the sport. I wonder though, are you taking any fouling or sighting shots before you shoot your string? Are the flyers in the first couple of shots? Do the flyers occur with any regularity in the string? The reason I ask is that you may be trying to figure something out that could possibly be unsolvable.. If you are getting the flyers with a degree of regularity in the beginning or at a certain shot number in your string, why not just drop down to a sighter target and let them go where they please?

The question isnt to solve the flyer, but avoid it from affecting your score target. The way I deal with that is to use that sighter target and let the wild one go and then go back to the score target for the record shot. Pay particular attention to where what number shot goes to see if this is happening at a certain shot in your string.

Shooting small groups takes three things that need to come together at the same time.. Skill, Wisdom and Luck.. Generally 2 out of three aint bad and the luck factor seems to happen with more regularity once you master the other two..

It also doent hurt to shoot enough sighters to pick at least 2 different wind conditions that you can find that 10 ring. It also doesnt hurt to drop down to the sighter to verify in the middle of a string. Who says you have to shoot 10 rounds in succession on the record target?

I shoot Kentucky windage a very large portion of the time.. I hold off instead of adjusting the sight. This way I do not have to constantly figure out where my zero is. I know with issue sights this can be difficult, but Marines do it all of the time. Fortunately I was training in the shooting arts by such a person, Gunnery Sgt. G. David Bailey was an amazing shot and I was honored to have know him. One hell of a man and friend.

There is a marine training manual on this subject floating somewhere out in cyber space, has some nifty tricks on windage in it. When I get some time I will see if I can track it down for you.

The main trick is practice. Somewhere someone is practicing, and when you face him in head to head competition, he will beat you because he practiced more than you did.

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linoww posted this 09 March 2009

I have trouble with issue class for the reasons you have! Having to shoot small groups AND center them with course military sights is frusterating! I have a 1891 Argentine that shoots very small groups,but i can never seem to be able to get them centered day to day.I admire the guys who can hold off a bit and lob em in the 10 ring.Dick Elliot shot an issue 1909 Arg at my last match and amazed me how he was able to adjust hiswindage with little taps and also holdoff for elevation.

George

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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linoww posted this 09 March 2009

"BTW, I'm working on the recommended Winchester primers now but have not seen much difference."

I have been using Fed LP primers with 7-8.5 of Bullseye and St-dev. is single digits every time.Accuracy not better though.

"I think this is as good as it's getting with this rifle/bullet/lube/powder combo."

I have come to the same conclusion about my sporterized P-17.I am going to break out a good shooting Ruger 77 and compare accuracy.

Shot today in horrid wind and cold with nothing worth bragging about with the PB 30's.I was surprised when my 62g GC 22-250 load @2100 was shooting a few MOA groups even at 200 in the wind.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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35Whelen posted this 08 March 2009

Flyers...arghh...for the last month, I've been working with my as-issued 03A3 looking for a load for Military Benchrest matches. First criteria was, of course, accuracy, but the second and almost as important, was finding a load that would hit exactly where I pointed.

  The first thing I noticed was the tendency of the rifle (?) to throw wide two shots out of ten shot groups:

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KenK posted this 08 March 2009

I'd just like one alibi per ten shot group.  Ten straight under 2” is proving a hard nut to crack with what I have.  This target today, in ideal conditions, would have been 1 13/16” except for that one.  Always one.

BTW, I'm working on the recommended Winchester primers now but have not seen much difference. 

I seem to have gotten some beagling with this last batch of bullets from something.  They had been shooting ok but getting an occasional really wild flier.  The bore ride nose fits so tightly I deduced some of the bullets were pushing back into the case.  Today I used the muzzle of a .308 barrel that is slightly larger than my 30/06 to gauge the noses.  I culled just about the same percentage as fliers I was getting.

I think this is as good as it's getting with this rifle/bullet/lube/powder combo.

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linoww posted this 07 March 2009

 

I'm thinking about converting over to 3 shot groups so I can have a 1/2 moa rifle, “If I do my part". : 0

 

Funny to us, but i read a mainstream gunrag where 3 shot groups were used, with the ” best 2 shots” in each group noted.The fellows theory was the third off shot was always shooter related, not the gun or loads fault.I guess you cant be honest or the gun companies or you wont get all the perks.

On another note i shot the 308403 load yesterday after work in perfect conditions.Of the three 10 shot groups none were under 2.5” What does Carlie Brown say when Lucy pulls the football away just before he kickes it? Aaaauugggg i think.My reaction was similar but the word i used only had 4 letters and started with “F"

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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KenK posted this 06 March 2009

linoww wrote: Maybe if i can deduce this is causing my occasional wide shots i can get 10 shot groups closer to 1” more often. George  

I'm thinking about converting over to 3 shot groups so I can have a 1/2 moa rifle, “If I do my part". : 0

 

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