FREECHEX II Bench Rest Test

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  • Last Post 21 January 2010
JackG posted this 19 April 2009

I compete regularly in CBA bench rest matches and normally have a more than adequate supply of reloading materials.  An order with Midway for a couple of thousand gas checks was 2 months on backorder and my supply was running short.  So I purchased a 30 cal.  FREECHEX II on ebay and started experimenting to see if it would produce similar results as compared to the Hornaday units and act as a backup if the shortage continued. 

Even though aluminum is suppose to be OK as a check material, I cringed at the thought of possibly scratching my new Lilja hand lapped barrel and opted to buy some 0.010” soft copper sheet and 0.012” brass shim stock for testing.  I used a 1 ton Harbor Freight (inexpensive) arbor press (1/2 ton or mallet would also be OK) and the fit was snug on the 0.283” OD GC shank of the custom 170 Gr. LBT bullet running a BHN of 27.  This is loaded in a 30 BR configuration with 33 Gr. of Varget speeding along at about 2,500 fps.  I normally shoot sub-MOA with the occasional flyer.  The test on these two materials produced the following 5 shot groups at 100 yards:

0.012” Brass:   A.)      1.160”  (0.792”  4/5)

B.)      0.674”  

0.010” Copper

  A.)               1.270”

B.)               0.645”  

I cleaned between each metal.  Seems like I need more foulers and less cleaning.  What this does tell me is that lack of commercial GCs would not prevent me from competing.   

On the economics of it all, the copper was expensive for the small quantity I bought, a 6” x 12” sheet at $9.00 plus shipping ”€œ an emotional buy to get things started.  I then bought a 6” x 100” roll of half hard brass shim stock from McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/>http://www.mcmaster.com) for $19,48 plus shipping which will give me 2.600 GCs and most importantly keep me in business with a metal I trust.

I would use the brass in competition, but I would anneal them as I do with the Hornaday's but didn't do it in this test.  Midway informed me that my 2 boxes of backordered GCs are on their way so I will use them in future matches as the additional time needed to make the GCs is something I'd rather not do at this time. Maybe after I retire.  But it is nice to know that I now have a viable backup system if copper supply becomes a problem ”€œ I read somewhere that the Chinese are making a heavy investment in copper to replace the US Greenback, so who knows.  

I just though I would share the results of today's test for anyone having trouble getting GCs.   :)

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CB posted this 21 January 2010

35 , good post and Pics....

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codarnall posted this 18 January 2010

?v=F0sFoaDLzw8 A video of a prototype 30 caliber FREECHEX single stroke tool.  I am still studying ways to implement it and  still keep machining etc. like prices down. Charlie

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CB posted this 15 January 2010

You can only buy the tool on eVil Bay, but maybe a tool owner would sell you some.

I remember when Paco Kelly was making the early Free Check or Chex tool, it was about $100.

It is about time that I consider buy some in various calibers I shoot, but I need .223, .7mm, 30, ,35, ,44, 45, at $45 each, that will be a couple of months worth of shooting money (I have a few things else I want to get), but it will be worth it in the long run.

If any one wants to try this method to get copper stock, Harbor Freight has rolling presses like jewelers use, I have rolled 12g wire in to paper thin sheets.

Jerry

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drsimm1776 posted this 12 January 2010

:shock:  Where / whom can I buy a Freechex from? address, url link or ? don Simmons

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corerf posted this 25 December 2009

Search for codarnall or freechex. Either one will show what charlie is selling at that time. Thats the only way to do it. Re makes them in certain calibers. I suppose you could send him a message on Ebay and ask him to make you “x” and he will notify when it is available. Thats what I did to get mine.

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Dicko posted this 24 December 2009

JackG wrote: Yes, exclusively I think.

That answers the question about where to get them.   But E Bay is a big outfit, can some kind member post the route to where in E Bay I should go ?

The second question concerns using the tool.   Those were excellent and informative posts by JackG and 35Whelen in particular.   I got the impression from the pics that the sheet is inserted in the slot in the tool and the punch punches the GC out the bottom.   Is that so ?   If it is, it would mean that you need strip material or that you have to cut your sheet into strips, right ?   Is anything needed underneath the work or is it just the bench surface.   Finally, does it make the GC in one pass or two ?

 

 

 

 

 

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CB posted this 07 May 2009

Received my FreeChex 2 a couple of days ago and here's my report.

It isn't all spit and polish but it kicks out a pretty nice looking check. I only tried it with the sample material Charlie sent along but it did do an excellent job. I was using a hammer but if I was thinking about cutting the cord from production check makers (or they cut the cord from us) and using it as my primary tool I believe an arbor press would be just the ticket.

IMO another quality tool that does what it's supposed to do at a decent price with excellent service. I think like Jack said this will go in the tool box as a just in case tool, not used or thought about much but invaluable if or when you need it.

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JackG posted this 28 April 2009

Yes, exclusively I think.

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303PV posted this 28 April 2009

 Prices of gas checks are very high here in Luxembourg. 32 Euro /1000 ( 1 euro =1.30 USD) for .30 and 40 Euro for .45 cal. Therefore I would like to buy a Freechex II  in .30 cal. Are they only sold on E-bay?

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JackG posted this 27 April 2009

madsenshooter wrote: Just a note on litho plates. Most all are anodized these days, that is they are all given a thin coat of aluminum oxide to help prevent oxidation that used to occur, say if a pressman didn't gum the plate before going to lunch. They're pre-oxidized. Those of you into the chemistry of fluxing, what does the oxide portion of metal want to free the metal, ie what is the oxide most attracted to? It wants either carbon, or hydrogen right. Makes things interesting in the pressroom too, fountain solutions have to be more acidic than they used to be. Anyway, I've read all the thinking that lube will stop the abrasion and that food can liners are plastic coated, but the 114 year old barrel on my Krag is irreplaceable (at a reasonable cost). So I'll have to pass on the endless supply of .011 thick litho plate that I have access to. I'll keep some around for emergencies, but the need will have to be dire, which could come to pass!

Thank you madsenshooter for helping me to make my point.  You said: “I'll keep some around for emergencies, but the need will have to be dire, which could come to pass!".  I agree with you there - all bets would be off but then I wouldn't be in a registered match, we would all be just surviving - but we would have the tools.  Kinda' reminds me of a scene out of Mad Max.

Maybe we need to think of aluminum oxide on a molecular scale, because when aluminum is oxidized either by mother nature or by man (using the anodizing process) the result has no resemblence to a piece of 320 grit aluminum oxide paper.  The aluminum oxide surface is bonded chemically to the virgin aluminum lying just below.   The aluminum oxide coating is only a few molecules thick. Further exposure to oxygen from the air can no longer oxidize any further as the surface is thus pasivated. 

So now we are dealing with an extremely thin coating of aluminum oxide which I believe will never show wear results in the short term.  For the long term I'm not willing to bet. 

 

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JackG posted this 27 April 2009

35Whelen wrote: Dollar Bill wrote:       Another point that bears discussion is past and present aluminum jacketed bullets. Specifically Winchesters now defunct Silvertip hollowpoints which used an aluminum alloy for a jacket, and Aquila's current “IQ” hollowpoint which likewise uses an aluminum jacketed bullet.     

For whatever it is worth, Silvertips and IQs are pistol bullets and do not achieve the pressures or velocities that I am working in (2,500 ft/sec.)  I don't know what the long-term affects of aluminum will have on a barrel working in high velocity ranges.  I'm not going to take the chance.

  What I do know is that benchrest shooters using copper jacketed bullets get maybe 3,000 rounds out of a barrel before it starts loosing accuracy and is replaced.  Accuracy is relative word as that “worn out barrel” would still knock off prairie dogs at 400 yards but would not be competitive in the BR game.  Benchrest shooters have almost indefinite life in a barrel using lead alloy and copper gas checks ”€œ that is a proven fact.  I'm just not interested in doing long-term tests on aluminum, I leave that to others.  I need to minimize the variables that I deal with in attempting to put 5 shots in one hole at a hundred yards (this is a mental illness, mind you.)   For those less interested in minute minuet of angle (MMOA) and more interested in minuet of moose (MOM), at least cost (nothing wrong with that), should take on the long term R & D aluminum challenge ...or just shoot and have fun, knowing that you are more self-reliant making your bullets and gas checks out of scrap.  A day or two or three on the range won't prove anything, in my humble opinion.

 

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madsenshooter posted this 27 April 2009

Just a note on litho plates. Most all are anodized these days, that is they are all given a thin coat of aluminum oxide to help prevent oxidation that used to occur, say if a pressman didn't gum the plate before going to lunch. They're pre-oxidized. Those of you into the chemistry of fluxing, what does the oxide portion of metal want to free the metal, ie what is the oxide most attracted to? It wants either carbon, or hydrogen right. Makes things interesting in the pressroom too, fountain solutions have to be more acidic than they used to be. Anyway, I've read all the thinking that lube will stop the abrasion and that food can liners are plastic coated, but the 114 year old barrel on my Krag is irreplaceable (at a reasonable cost). So I'll have to pass on the endless supply of .011 thick litho plate that I have access to. I'll keep some around for emergencies, but the need will have to be dire, which could come to pass!

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35Whelen posted this 26 April 2009

Dollar Bill wrote: Point taken, 35W. No need for sarcasm. But I seriously your “crude” tests will duplicate what goes on inside the bore of a rifle. For the record, I've contacted Codarnall and am trying to get a 30cal Freechex myself. I think it's a great idea. Sometimes we over-think things, and other times over-simplify a complex subject.

  Sorry I came across as sarcastic. My crude test wasn't intended to duplicate or even come close to duplicating what happens inside a barrel. But my little test did convince me that the inside of my barrels are safe with aluminum checks.

  I sometimes get a little irritated when a new idea is over-analyzed and the naysayers come out en-mass ignoring common logic because they've already made up their collective minds.

   A perfect example: Remember a few years ago when hoards of internet gun nuts were telling us that any rifle stamped 7.62x51mm (specifically the Spanish FR-7 & FR-8 models) would blow into 1,000,000 tiny pieces and kill everyone within 100 yds. if you fired 308 Winchester ammunition in them?  I digress.....

  To me it's simple: aluminum is softer than both barrel steel and copper gas check material, so how could it scratch the inside a barrel to any appreciable degree? I also understand the abrasive qualities of aluminum oxide (I've used it in a sandblaster to clean metal parts). But we're talking about making checks out of aluminum sheeting, not aluminum oxide. 

  Why doesn't Hornady make aluminum checks? I have no idea, but if I had to guess, I'd say it's probably because they're a bullet manufacturer who buys copper by the ton. Who knows? 

  My FreeChex tool is made of ordinary cold rolled steel. I can assure you that if these aluminum checks that I (we) are making are indeed abrasive, the check making tool will wear out LONG before a barrel made of 4140 steel.

   Another point that bears discussion is past and present aluminum jacketed bullets. Specifically Winchesters now defunct Silvertip hollowpoints which used an aluminum alloy for a jacket, and Aquila's current “IQ” hollowpoint which likewise uses an aluminum jacketed bullet.

   35W

 

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JetMech posted this 26 April 2009

Point taken, 35W. No need for sarcasm. But I seriously doubt your “crude” tests will duplicate what goes on inside the bore of a rifle. For the record, I've contacted Codarnall and am trying to get a 30cal Freechex myself. I think it's a great idea. Sometimes we over-think things, and other times over-simplify a complex subject.

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35Whelen posted this 26 April 2009

Dollar Bill wrote: I agree, Pat. The only way to know for sure would be a controlled test involving, probably, thousands of rounds thru the same barrel. As to the statement that the idea of aluminum wearing steel being almost laughable, consider water. I could pour water onto a rock all day and all I see is the water running off of it. Then look at the Grand Canyon, all you'll see the true long term results.

 Thousands of rounds? Well of COURSE there'll be wear after thousands of rounds! That's how copper bullets wear out barrels. Shoot enough lead bullets and there will eventually be wear too. But the original subject was whether or not aluminum will scratch or score a barrel, not eventually wear it out.

     I was pretty sure the answer to this question was “No", but I tried a couple of crude tests yesterday. First I took a 30-06 case (figuring brass is much softer than barrel steel) and an aluminum check and scrubbed the check on the body of the case. Nothing. No scores, scuffs or scratches. Deciding this might not be aggressive enough, I chucked the same case up in my drill press. I then turned the drill press on, took the aluminum sign pictured in my post and where a notch had formed from stamping a check out of it, pressed it against the spinning case...I mean pressed it hard. This time I got results. The brass, where it had contacted the aluminum began to shine just a little (no scuffing, just a little luster) while the aluminum, where it had contacted the brass, had really begun to shine. That tell me that the brass was wearing the aluminum. If I have time today, I plan to chuck a piece of steel stock in my lathe and perform some more experiments.  

  At any rate, I'm going to switch to aluminum checks. Come to think of it, I have a buddy on the Cast Boolit forum that shoots High Power with an 03A3 and uses aluminum checks exclusively. I'll ask him if he's seen any barrel wear or degradation of accuracy.

  35W 

    

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JetMech posted this 26 April 2009

I agree, Pat. The only way to know for sure would be a controlled test involving, probably, thousands of rounds thru the same barrel. As to the statement that the idea of aluminum wearing steel being almost laughable, consider water. I could pour water onto a rock all day and all I see is the water running off of it. Then look at the Grand Canyon, all you'll see the true long term results.

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CB posted this 25 April 2009

I don't know if a knife blade or a cutting tool is a fair comparison to barrel steel and the aluminum case stays in the chamber. No opinion on the matter one way or the other but can't compare apples to oranges.

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codarnall posted this 25 April 2009

I just found various thicknesses at ACE hardware. All basically are 25 Square feet for $21. .0092, .0079, .014 . I purchased the .092 4"X 50'. I've been buying .008 from HomeDepot. and personally having excellent luck.
Charlie

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35Whelen posted this 25 April 2009

 I bought a FreeChex II recently because 1) I'm sick if high copper prices, 2) I'm sick of depending on someone else for my bullet making supplies (Midway USA, MidSouth, et al) and most of all 3) because I'm a tightwad:P

   Here's a copy of a post of mine from Cast Boolits: 

Someone may have already discovered this source of aluminum, but.....

     I ordered and received a Free Chex II gas check maker. It came with a small piece of aluminum .0095” flashing which was easy to use in making checks, but the checks were too thin for my tastes and could easily be pulled off.   As a result I modified the unused end of the check punch in my lathe so as to make the I.D. of the check smaller, but still no joy. So off I go in search of thicker check material. None of the hardware stores in my area had anything but the aforementioned “thin” flashing. Standing in Lowe's scratching my head, I thought of the metal “No Trespassing", “Garage Sale", etc. signs.  I found them, whipped the micrometer out of my pocket and violá! .0125"! Perfect! $1.99 + tax and I'm out of there.

  Back at the bench, stamping checks out of the sign is quite easy and they make nice looking checks. As best I can figure, one sign should net around 550 .30 caliber gas checks.   Either way, the checks crimped firmly onto my 314299 bullets and I couldn't pry them off with my fingers.  

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codarnall posted this 23 April 2009

Yes, and the town was just about ghost like and shut down because of the weakness in copper .  Folks then were considering a new Walmart store comming to town.  They expressed hope it would breath life into the complex (five little cities).  Those were Jimmy Carter daze too,  I can report that it is doing well because of the Supercenter.  Same here in Socorro NM.  I was warned that there would be no ammo here either.  Still $14.97 a 550 box of  Federal, my favorite.   Hornady may produce more, but as a gent pointed out to me in a PM the other day something like Prop 65 in Ca. will come along and shut them down too.  I see leadless partition bullets showing up in the small store in Camarillo.  Barret told Califorina “screw you” we won't sell our products in CA period, law enforcement dept's or not.  We have to stay ahead of the “fine folks".

Charlie

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