Army & Navy Cooperative Society Rook Rifle

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  • Last Post 21 January 2012
Ed Harris posted this 21 October 2011

Recently received this rifle back from John Taylor. Original iron sights regulated for the blackpowder .255 Rook cartridge shot to point of aim at 50 yards with PMC 98-gr. LRN .32 S&W Long ammo. Point of impact with the other two sight leaves shooting at 50 yards is shown. Average of five consecutive 5-shot groups at 50 yards with 6X Unertl small game scope was 1.4 inches with smallest group 0.9” and largest 1.75".

Next outing I will shoot handloads with Saeco #322 seated out to engrave rifling upon chambering, with 2 grs. of Bullseye and similar load with RCBS .310 Cadet heeled bullet. Stay tuned.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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6pt-sika posted this 21 October 2011

If you happen to have one and don't mind , post a pic of the rifle with the Unertl on top please !

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6pt-sika posted this 21 October 2011

I'm just curiouse whats the average worth of one of these little rifles in unaltered condition ?

 

I've never owned one , but have been quite intrested several times .

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72coupe posted this 21 October 2011

You get to play with all the neat stuff. Color me jealous.

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Ed Harris posted this 22 October 2011

6pt-sika wrote: post a pic of the rifle with the Unertl on top please !

Here it is.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 22 October 2011

6pt-sika wrote: ...whats the average worth of one of these little rifles in unaltered condition ?

In early 1980s could get for a few hundred $, which this one was. Now one with nice exterior, not butchered,but pitted bore, suitable for relining brings about $1000 US

Plan to ship mine to a London trained UK expat gunsmith kin in CT to finish a full restoration of wood, metal, etc. One of those things that if you must ask what it costs, you cannot afford it. Going to take some of my retirement money and just do it, because when this guy goes to his reward would be impossible to have done at any cost.... Am determined that my heirs will inherit nice guns.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 22 October 2011

Ed,

I really understand you attitude. We all have a finite time in this life. The rifle you pass on can live for several more generations and bring pleasure to the hearts of your heirs. Good for you!

Ric

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Ed Harris posted this 25 October 2011

Here are 50-yd. targets shot with 6x Unertl from sandbags. Like RCBS 120-gr. Cadet heeled bullet, front end engraves like Eley Tenex when you close action. Saeco #322 seated out in top lube groove, also with 2 grs. Bullseye nearly as good, under 1-1/2” avg. at 50 yds. is good for “pistol and revolver” ammo.

Next to send to Lucas in CT for cosmetic wood restoration, new hinge pin, fit and adjust action, re-case color, rust blue, etc. This completes the “before” pics, will be PRETTY next time you see it.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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gregg posted this 25 October 2011

Ed Harris wrote: . because when this guy goes to his reward would be impossible to have done at any cost.... Am determined that my heirs will inherit nice guns.

Ed what a wonderful rifle.

If there not powder and lead there not sure I want to go?:thinking:

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Ed Harris posted this 26 October 2011

And it is verrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy quiieeeeeet! so as not to scare the bunny weabbits!

Bullets whacking the cardboard target backer make more noise than the rifle going off.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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6pt-sika posted this 26 October 2011

Do you think the action and barrel on that little rifle would be strong enough to run the chamber out to 32 H&R MAG or 327 Federal ?

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Ed Harris posted this 27 October 2011

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73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 27 October 2011

Ed Harris wrote: 6pt-sika wrote: Do you think the action and barrel on that little rifle would be strong enough to run the chamber out to 32 H&R MAG or 327 Federal ?

You could go .32 H&R Magnum to use that brass, but ONLY if you didn't exceed factory pressures, and used full 20-22,000 psi loads only occasionally, in limited quantity. You want to avoid shooting the old gun loose and having to explain to the gunsmith how stupid you are when you ask him to tighten it up again. You only get away with that once. 8-)

I intend to keep most of my loads below 14,000 psi, using 2 grains of Bullseye with bullets seated out to fit. For hunting purposes may try a few approaching H&R Magnum pressures, 2.5 to 3 grs. of Bullseye with #3118 cast HP seated out to 1.30” overall length to engrave upon breech closure, but stealth and low noise is the objective, to avoid disturbing the neighbors. Any loads which CRACK~! defeat the purpose.

Factory 98-gr. lead RN ammo for the .32 S&W long is pleasant and accurate like standard velocity .22 LR. Fiocchi wadcutters are almost entirely silent, like CB longs. My normal cast bullet revolver loads shoot better than I can hold with the simple open sights, around 2 inches at 50 yards. While I will not have Lucas fill the scope block holes, the Unertl small game scope is mostly for load development. The joy of a light walking gun is that it carries like a fly rod or walking stick in your hand, being only 4-1/2 pounds. It exemplifies clean, naked simplcity, being elegant while throughly utilitarian is the joy of it all. Post cataract surgery with new lens implant I am enjoying iron sights again and savor each opportunity.

While the modern steel liner will hold higher pressure than original blackpowder loads, you still have small locking surfaces and a mild, plain carbon steel action of metalllurgy ca. 1880.

The .327 Federal, absolutely not!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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72coupe posted this 27 October 2011

I think the limitations of a black powder action is part of the fun of loading for it. It is challenging after all.

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tturner53 posted this 28 October 2011

That's nice but it'd look better if you put a picaniny rail on everywhere and mounted a laser. Maybe a old Cadillac headlight. Oh, and a combo range finder digital movie camera. Did you remove the magazine for those pictures? Oh, and a pistol grip or two. Kinda doll it up a little Ed, as long as you're going to spend some money anyway. I have two just like it, spray painted 'em, one's black as night, the other is camo. Nice.

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Ed Harris posted this 28 October 2011

tturner53 - you forgot the smiley face 8-)

Do have M1913 rail on .30-40 and .44 Mag barrels I had John make for my Beretta M412 folding shotgun/rifle combo. LaRue Tactical mount with Millet DMS scope and XS ghost ring peep as backup irons. Figured that a heavy scope and mount were OK on those two barrels, because recoil in what otherwise would have been a 5 lb., break-open single-shot would have been unpleasant with full hunting loads in those calibers.

But as you know, my taste runs towards the traditional, such as my converted small action (ca. 1920s) H&R Bunny Gun, as close as it gets to tactical are the XS sights and new .38 Special barrel.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 28 October 2011

72coupe wrote: I think the limitations of a black powder action is part of the fun of loading for it. It is challenging after all.

You understand my thought, but getting loads that work is no real challenge. With 16 inch twist, bullet weight is limited to about 120 grains at subsonic velocity. Case capacity is limited. Revolver bullets which work well are NEI #82 in 88-gr. and 115-gr. plainbased versions, the similar Lyman #3118, or #311008 as they call it now, also Saeco #322 and the RCBS 310-120 Cadet heeled bullet.

Lightest charge which gets bullets out the 26 inch barrel every time with good ballistic uniformity, with useful iron sight accuracy and 25 yard point of impact with a normal 50 yard zero is 1 grain of Bullseye. Normal “working load” is 2 grains of Bullseye with any bullet. Maximum I have tried only for “proof” purposes to check primer appearance and extraction was 3 grs. of Bullseye with #3118 HP seated out to 1.30” overall length and jammed into rifling, approximating .32 H&R Magnum pressures. Easy extraction, but standard pistol primers beginning to flatten so no more of those. Working max. is 2.5 grs. of Bullseye or 7 grs. #2400 only occasionally when a supersonic velocity is needed to get good performance with a hollow-point cast bullet for varmints and I don't mind the noise. If I really want CRACK~! I don't have to smoke it, after all, I have a .30-'06!:lovecast:

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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72coupe posted this 28 October 2011

Will your powder measure throw 1 grain of Bullseye? The lightest charge mine will throw is 2.1 grains. Its an RCBS Uniflow.

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Ed Harris posted this 28 October 2011

72coupe wrote: Will your powder measure throw 1 grain of Bullseye? The lightest charge mine will throw is 2.1 grains. Its an RCBS Uniflow.

My Culver pistol measure will accurately throw 1 grain of Bullseye to +/- 0.05 grain. Homer has gone to Valhalla AND THERE AREN'T ANY MORE. RCBS little dandy 00 rotor will accurately throw 1.5 to 1.7 depending on your rotor and powder lot.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 28 October 2011

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73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 23 December 2011

New eye candy, got the restored rifle back from Lucas Geiger. Don't ask what it cost. If you find it necessary to ask, then you cannot afford it.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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