What do you guys think?
Is this what it seems? ANYONE TRY IT?
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- Last Post 25 July 2012
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Did the guys that make that stuff stiff you on a loan or something?? Like Jeff said before you give yourself a case of the vapors email the company and ask them for a MSDS sheet. I never tried this stuff but use their Wipe Out and Accelerator and think it's great.
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I put in over an hour last nite using every available search engine listed on Google to try to locate an MSDS for the No Lead Brushless Lead Remover from Sharp Shoot R Precision Products,
This is very suspicious to me and I hope someone can do better at locating an MSDS on the product and copy it to this forum. Ingredients with warnings about use and no MSDS spell trouble.
I am assuming Phosphoric acid is the active ingredient and could well be wrong and it may well be something even worse.
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I certainly can't do it every day
Now we're getting somewhere. People have to remember that wind and God smiling on you can blow groups together once in a while as well as blow them apart. My pet peeve wouldn't be a pet peeve if guys would give the aggregates for ALL the groups they shot not just the ones that they're proud of. There's a squirrel over on Cast Boolits who's posted a picture of a real nice 3 shot 45-70 group so many times even the image on the screen has frayed edges from handling. Is that one group an indication of how the rifle shoots? I seriously doubt it since it's the only group he ever shows people but to hear him talk he can do it on demand.
By the way sorry for stealing your topic Vassal. I'll shut up now.
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I certainly can't do it every day, but I know how to pick a day with the weather and health that allows me to shoot my best.
Currently I am 62 years old with COPD and that is limiting. But when I say 1 MOA it is at the distance I mention. I have had some superb rifles over my lifetime and know several shooters that have beaten my lifetime best of a 6.82” group of 5 shots at 1.000 yards. That was a perfect day with a temperature inversion and zero MPH winds. That rifle, long gone now was a custom unlimited 25-06 built on a Hi-Wall. I never did better than that and I was in my 20s then after having been a trigger for the French Legioneers with cross training from the USMC.
I understand your doubt, but I have always been very keen on bore finish being able to separate a real shooter from an off the rack rifle of the same model and I will stick with that. My simple polishing method that I have posted about on this forum was a very long thought out progression to finally arrive at contributing the method to this forum. Some haven't taken well to that procedure because I use a Hoppe's BoreSnake and Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and have been critical. It is their loss. Some may think it too simple to be true. In actuality it is not a simple and easy thing to do as the latest commentator member here on this forum has found out from giving an earnest effort to do the procedure. I am confident his rifles will significantly improve if he follows through and re-slugs his barrels to verify bore dimension for bullet size selection.
I am very concerned about the Wipe Out No Lead product having the chemical strength to damage the hard shine of an excellent shooting bore. There are shooters here on this forum that don't know the difference between a patch with lead on it and a patch with powder fouling on it and they come here for advice. A shooter like that could very well damage his bore with Wipe Out. I tried to discourage that and tried to encourage learning more about shooting cast bullets with no barrel leading in a direct, straight forward way.
Hopefully someone will find out or disclose the active ingredient of the product. I am guessing it is Phosphoric Acid that I am familiar with having the capacity to ruin bores. It is no “wonder acid” and not a new idea at all if it is Phosphoric Acid in any dilution.
My .458 will only shoot 1MOA at 100 yards with a 405 gr Lee bullet unsized and breech loaded at ~ 1100fps. That is nothing to brag about and common with a decent big bore, heavy bullets and breech loading at low velocity. My best bear load from that rifle with the 350 gr. RanchDog at 1700 fps groups 1 MOA at 50 yards, that one is worth a brag for a hunter!
Gary
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Gary are those sub MOA groups actually shot at 100 yards or are they shot at 50 and the results multiplied by 2. One of the things I like about this CBA forum and to be honest am quite proud of is the lack of people that claim they can shoot sub minute of angle or less on demand with anything they put on the bench. I was the director of registered competitions for a while and looked at a lot of results and measured a lot of groups both my own and others and it isn't as easy as some of the forums claim. That is unless the CBA forum just happens to have the worst and least knowledgeable conglomeration of shooters ever to have the misfortune of assembling in one place which while a possibility I don't believe is the case.
This easy to get MOA crap if you REALLY know what you're doing with normal off the rack rifles both military and commercial is a pet peeve of mine in case you couldn't tell and if you can do it on demand with a hunting or military rifle join the CBA and start winning matches because that's exactly what you'll do.
It's not you that got me going but the whole internet horse crap of people making claims they won't back up with real proof. I've gone as far as to offer to drive 600 miles to be shown actual proof of the claims made by two clowns on another forum which they weaseled out of. Like I said it's a big pet peeve of mine.
Rant off back to business.
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I have only one military rifle shooting sub 1MOA and it won't qualify for match shooting unfortunately. it is a 1903A3 and it was built with new old stock arsenal parts on a National Ordinance receiver from the 1960s and doesn't qualify in regulations. I wish it did, but it is a wonderful shooter anyway.
I am considering joining for match shooting with a large bore production rifle that shoots as well. I have posted about that one too, it is my Colt/Sauer Grand African in .458 Win Mag. It has the slickest bore I have ever shot and light loads are sub 1 MOA at 100 yards.
Gary
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Been quiet lately so lets not start a pissing contest. Nick if you try the NO-LEAD and it eats the rifling out of your barrel let us know about it. If it works as described with no damage let us know that too. Gary drag some of those easy to get sub MOA agging military and hunting rifles out to a match or two and show people how it's done.
See how easy it is to get along?
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It is not me that is perfect. My rifles are, and if they can't be made to be as perfect as I want them, then they are sold or traded.
It is not that hard to get a rifle that you intend to only shoot cast bullets from shooting sub 1 MOA or decide if it is a keeper or not. Bullet fit, bore condition and alloy selection for reasonable load levels have never been a mystery and the choice to evaluate a rifle, fix it's problems and keep it or not has no emotion connected to it for me. There is plenty of rifles at the shows that most sellers have no idea can be turned into top notch cast bullet shooters with a little mind and muscle power.
Gary
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I was a bit leery myself; hoping someone had tried it already. The Link offered by Duane is a good one. I am not sure why they are SO adament about using a lube/cleaner in between cycles but if I had to guess it does have the potential for corrosion - not so much from the product itself as from leaving the surface totally stripped from all surface protection of oils/oxidation type stuff. If used as directed it could be worth having around for some extreme case; maybe helping a friend out or experimenting with an old bore. I am glad to hear that Onandoga is perfect and believes everyone else should be perfect like him! Of course I asked about the product- not if we thought people “should need it or not. I haven't had any harsh leading since that catastrophe with Lyudmilla (a pristine 91-30.) I sure sould have used it then though! I don't plan on needeing it again, but I am adventurous and like to “Boldly go where no-one has gone before!” If thats OK with everybody.
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Jim after a couple of attempts you've finally piqued my interest and I'm going to order some of that Frog Lube to try out. Might be helpful with the PB project I'm doing.
As far as the the No Lead product the warnings don't seem any worse than the ones that come with Sweets 7.62 bore cleaner. Follow the directions and you shouldn't have a problem.
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Im making a perdiction,When you guys get around to trying FROG LUBE you wont here the end of the ravings of how good it works.I tryed getting my gun to lead up shooting 20 rounds as fast as i could put them in the gun.Not a speck of leading!and shoots damm good even hot now.Cleans a whole lot faster now also.YOU HAVE TO TRY THIS STUFF!I dont see how anyone will be dissapointed.
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Just one other url obtained from a different source. Not quite the same information as the first site from Vassel.
Duane
Carefully read this thread. Looks like this stuff can damage rifling.
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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:coffee These are big warnings to me.
I agree 100% there, Gary. I'll take an assortment of brushes and some mineral spirits any day.
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I'll let you guys try it. I'll stick with Hoppe's & a bore brush.
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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This is interesting if it works. Makes “lead oxide” (which is toxic, by the way, unlike metallic lead) but does not corrode ferrous alloys (at least for 20 minutes)? I'd sure like to see the chemistry on this product. Ric
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Just one other url obtained from a different source. Not quite the same information as the first site from Vassel.
Duane
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The manufacturer says you can leave the NO-LEAD in your bore for up to 20 minutes. They also say it foams and turns the leads color.
These are big warnings to me. Chemical action like that leaves me suspicious that the product is powerful enough to remove the slick shine of an excellent bore.
I actually believe if the chemical is potent enough to require very completely removing it after a maximum of 20 minutes there is a high likelihood that it will worsen rough or pitted bores in addition to damaging a slick shiny excellent bore finish.
But, of course, if you have a slick shiny bore, bullets that fit and a bullet alloy up to the pressures you shoot, and use any reasonable bullet lube, there is no leading.
Apparently the product is aimed at lead shooters with a poor understanding and low skill level about cast bullet shooting. I hope that doesn't enrage anybody, but if you have leading, it is your own fault for ignoring basic cast bullet shooting , loading and firearm maintenance skills that have long been available to learn.
Gary
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I feel another experiment added to my ever growing list...
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I don't know about that stuff but I use Patch Out with Accelerator made by the same company for my jacketed stuff and it does a great job. For ten bucks it's worth trying and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it does exactly what they say it does.
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