While casting 311299 bullets from a NOE six cavity mold some bullets had frosted spots on the side of the nose. These frosty spots just in front of the lube grooves were a few thousands smaller in diameter. The alloy used was WW with about 2% added tin. They didn't show up every time but often enough to reduce the casting yield. I've not had this kind of defect before. What causes this?
Casting defect
- 5.7K Views
- Last Post 05 October 2012
4060may
posted this
05 October 2012
Mountain molds has a dissertation on what he calls “SBS” shrunken bullet syndrome
might be worth a look, found under articles and links
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Pigslayer
posted this
01 October 2012
Gary
I thought that you might get a kick out of that.
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Ed Harris
posted this
01 October 2012
Light smoking usually fixes this. I use wooden, “farmer” matches, or a carbide lamp.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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RicinYakima
posted this
01 October 2012
Dan, Now we have something to debate! Wagner, it is Wagner! The “touch, drop, knock” method is great, but is slower for total bullets; faster for match bullets. Ric
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onondaga
posted this
30 September 2012
Gary
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CB
posted this
30 September 2012
They've got some funny ideas over there.
My casting methods work well for me, and I'm happy with my results. It would be nice if every cast were perfect, but they're not, and I feel it's unreasonable to expect such results. My personal observation is that most casting problems seem to be related to mould contamination, heat issues, or venting issues.
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Pigslayer
posted this
30 September 2012
are we thinking currently that
frosty bullets are defective ???
crap!!! i have shot a lot of them.
ken No! They are not defective. They shoot just as good as the shiny ones! I've shot a lot of them too! It's kind of funny, over at castboolits I was berated for showing a picture of some frosty bullets that I had cast. Classic example of being anal rententive. Nothing in God's world is perfect . . . including me.
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Ken Campbell Iowa
posted this
30 September 2012
are we thinking currently that
frosty bullets are defective ???
crap!!! i have shot a lot of them.
ken
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Pigslayer
posted this
30 September 2012
I always used the “touch” method when using a Lyman ladle . . . it always worked although back then (early 1970's) the heat was hard to control as I was using a Lyman Cast Iron lead pot & a propane torch. Now I use a PID and have it set for 340 dehrees centigrade (644 degrees F). Yes, I'm spoiled . . . I deserve it. Even with the controlled heat I find I need to leave the mold open for 10 to 15 seconds after each cast. As a rule I get shiney & well defined bullets. I may get very light frost at times but for the most part I get good results. No, I'm not so much worried about “production” as I enjoy the leisurely time I spend in casting. I'm in no hurry. I do enjoy reading Gary's posts as they are filled with good information. Sort of like reading the Quintessence Of Dental Technology. Yes, Gary, I too worked in a dental lab . . . my favorite job was at the Gold Bench. But that was years ago. At the same time, Pat I. is correct in that all we are doing is pouring melted down wheelweights into molds & hoping to achieve a 1 to 1 1/2 group at 100 yds. . . . it's not rocket science. To me, any & all information is good. Simply take what you want & leave the rest.
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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CB
posted this
30 September 2012
Dan, I'd like to sit and watch you pour. If you can't get nice bullets swirl casting....well, you are doing it incorrectly!
Gary
Gary, I didn't mean anything wrong against what you are saying and I didn't say I got bad bullets by casting using the 'swirl' technique. :D
I was just saying that I get really purtty nice little cast bullets when I pour and do not allow the flow to contact the atmosphere. The CBs drop outa the mold just the shinniest, most gleaming pretty CBs I ever get. Like the bright glowing stars of constellation Orion! Like jewels, Like shimmering rubies of Bathsheba! Man, I hate to touch em and ruin their luster let alone shoot them. Uhh, sorry got carried away.......Dan
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CB
posted this
30 September 2012
I think Pat is quite correct in the overcomplicated advice of bullet casting advice on a particular forum.I bet most of the bullets don't even go down a barrel. They scare new guys out of pulling the trigger.
Ya George I know what you mean. That is why I never got into telling the rest of my casting techniques. Growing up here in this little farm community of Swedes, I have developed what I call a 'Swede Position' after years of observing Swede farmers working on combines and Swede carpenters building houses. (nothing against Swedes, farmers, or carpenters). Observation is all relative when applied to casting tecniques.
Another method of casting I didn't mention before was my 'touch-drop-tap' technique. I presented this technique to another CBA champion shooter and he also admitted to using a very similar casting procedure. I find the technique requires a certain mind swing which I attain listening to Beethoven's 7th Symphony. Something about the relation of the tempo with the rhythm of the casting technique once it is established. I will quit here for fear of mundane ramblings........Dan
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onondaga
posted this
30 September 2012
Dan, I'd like to sit and watch you pour. If you can't get nice bullets swirl casting....well, you are doing it incorrectly!
The “touch"pouring also has zero effect on surface oxidation of the flow from a spout compared to 1/4 -1/2 inch flow length. the time surface oxidation occurs is milliseconds and the hotter the alloy the faster oxidation occurs. If you are going to get oxidation swirl casting you will get it touch pouring as well.
Flow temperature controls oxidation of the flow.
Touch pouring does change the turbulence pattern and can be useful in eliminating hot spots, but touch pouring can also cause severe gurgling of the stream into the mold. An excessive flow length of one or more inches that some casters use, I just can't fathom. I mean, really, why? I don't even think that is safe.
Opening the gate hole size is effective also and that is because it allows a more efficient flow of air out of the mold as the metal enters. Controlling flow stream diameter with the flow valve setting is just as effective in controlling the ratio of the flow stream diameter to the gate hole diameter and does not permanently change the sprue plate. It is also easy for an inexperienced tinker to really wreck the flatness of a sprue plate by drilling it and not re flatting it very well.
Gary
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linoww
posted this
30 September 2012
I think Pat is quite correct in the overcomplicated advice of bullet casting advice on a particular forum.I bet most of the bullets don't even go down a barrel. They scare new guys out of pulling the trigger.
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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linoww
posted this
30 September 2012
I got banned and then reinstated from castboolits for probably things related to the same guy.Also the moderators are a bunch of thugs
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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CB
posted this
30 September 2012
I'd like to have really nice looking bullets, regardless of how they shoot. I'd be happier with my casting.
Thanks Gary I shall try the swirl casting method and report back to you on performance (if and when the issue arises).
Mike
Swirl method of poring CBs is good sometimes. I have opened up my sprue holes before, using a number drill set, going up one increment at a time, this helps for the swirl method. Usually only one step up in drill size will help.
You'll never get really nice looking bullets by swirl poring. I have found my nicest looking bullets are poured by touching the sprue plate to the pour tip of a bottom pour pot. The 'touch' method of the sprue to the pot tip momentarily (a fraction of a second that it takes to fill the cavity) does not allow the lead to be exposed to the atmosphere. The short distance which lead is allowed to flow down to a lowered mold from the tip will cause oxidation on the flow, dragging minute amounts of slag into the cavity, though this really doesn't hurt shooting performance.
I cast this way often which requires a little technique, but so does all casting methods. I get nicely filled CBs this way. Either way, you'll have to slow down like you do in between filling cavities, or let the mold cool opened in front of a fan for a few seconds if you try 'touch' method of casting.............Dan
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onondaga
posted this
30 September 2012
Mike, The effort will be worth it. Swirl takes practice and a close eye. A couple of things that help are using the mold guide on my Lee bottom pour pot set to locate the mold with a short 1/4 to 1/2” maximum flow length to the sprue gate hole. A change in bench setup can make a big difference of how well you can see the metal flowing . I sit while casting and the bottom pour spout is kept in clear view. I use a key light pointed at the mold top to see better. One caster told me he elevated his pot on a wooden platform box 6 inches above bench-top and that brought the pour spout right to eye level for him to get the best view. Only then could he really be on target getting the flow to hit the high side slope of the sprue gate funnel accurately.
Notice, I never said this is easy!
Best to you,
Gary
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CB
posted this
30 September 2012
I too have experienced this issue, and wrote it off to the mould being thinner in the area of the handle mounting cuts. I just kept casting until the bullets were evenly frosted, and everything was all right from that point on. I set my moulds on previously cast ingots to freeze, which creates a heat sink and helps regulate the mould temps.
As for the side thread, I am in voluntary exile from the “Cast Boolits” site. I am what the biggies there refer to as a “misfit". Does everybody feel the love?
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corerf
posted this
30 September 2012
Gary, unlike most on this forum, I appreciated the explanation. I HAVE RAISED the temp to overcome the same problem. I HAVE also found that in a two cavity mold, one side can alter the other temp rapidly and superheat a “zone” in the other cavity, causing the “porosity issue". I described my method of cure in another thread hear about a year ago.
I found that a short delay in flowing the second cavity, 4 seconds (slows things down HUGE) allows the cavity #2 to distribute heat evenly, then the “ISSUE” ends.
But it kills productivity.
I also noticed that if the distance was raised to the sprue plate, more turbulence in the flow HELPED but I never got it to fix the problem. Ultimately I ended up raising the temp and having frosty bullets.
I'd like to have really nice looking bullets, regardless of how they shoot. I'd be happier with my casting.
Thanks Gary I shall try the swirl casting method and report back to you on performance (if and when the issue arises).
Mike
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pat i.
posted this
24 September 2012
I've noticed before and it seems to be getting worse lately that people have to tread lightly in certain places and don't EVER make a disparaging remark about one of the chosen few or you'll end up on the outside looking in.
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Pigslayer
posted this
24 September 2012
You guys are a riot. I'm not a fan of the cast boolits site. Actually I'm permanently banned from that site for reporting a vendor and the site owner there for Felony Mail Fraud and complicity to commit Felony Mail Fraud. The case is ongoing and I have been deposed by the court. They probably want to slap me upside the head by now too. More than a handful of members defrauded by the same vendor there have been very helpful to the US Postal Inspector and supportive personally to me in this matter.
Yes, I am one of the science guys about casting but my background in it is most solidly tied to precious metals in Dentistry, but still, casting bullets since age 7 and now 63. I apply the science stuff when I have problems and tend to run with it when someone has a problem and is looking for a reason, an answer and a solution like the OP. Solving casting problems was a big part of my career.
If any of you really get a problem casting, don't hesitate to ask. Just know ahead of time, you might get more than you expected in an answer.
Gary
Am getting a little off topic but I too was permanently banned from castboolits for adamantly complaining about the fraudulent activities of a certain vendor and . . . I too filed a complaint with the USPIS.
Pat, the laughs are all good my friend . . . try and laugh with us.
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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