Finally! I just went up to a local gunshop & ordered my new Handi-Rifle in .444 Marlin. I've been wanting to do that for about 3 months! Nothing like a new toy to play with! The scope mounts are on their way from Natchez and a new scope is in the box in my shop! Many bullets are cast for it with plenty of brass on hand. Lots of fun ahead!!
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
Attached Files
Pat:
Sometimes it is difficult to locate info on your load pressure in psi but my conversion formula is within practical limit for this function if you can locate CUP for your load and convert it to psi, the results will be within 3000 units.
ANSI CUP to ANSI psi: (CUP X 1.515586) - 17902 = psi within 3000 units
Gary
The source of this formula is: http://www.steyrscout.org/intballi.htm "New statistical data analysis suggests that for most cartridges ANSI/SAAMI Maximum Average Piezo (PSI) and Maximum Average copper crusher (CUP) taken in a “standard” barrel can be related by the following formula which has an R^2 value (a statistical measurement of certainty) of .927. (1.51586 * CUP) - 17902.0 = PSI While the relationship is generally within Ksi (it assumes that the CUP was determined using ANSI/ SAAMI standards) one should not rely on this conversion for absolute maximum loads.” It appears that the formula is based on The Lyman 47th Handbook table, pg. 93, shows both CUP and psi pressures for a set of cartridges. This table was developed by the Hercules Powder Co. I applied the formula to the CUP pressures in the Lyman table and the formula worked pretty well. The formula produced results between 87%,(-3.5Ksi) and 110%, (+6Ksi) of the table values. Regression analysis of the table data yielded (1.513 * CUP) -17920; suggesting strongly that both formulas came from the same data. Basing the relationship between CUP and PSI on a sample of 25 tests made under unknown conditions is sorta risky; and I would advise caution.
Attached Files
Found that with the harder Carnuba Red lube that my groups are no longer falling off after 10-15 shots and my groups seem tighter at 50 yds.. As long as I do “my part” I'm getting 1” groups
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
Attached Files
Consider cutting a 3/4 x 3/4” square of paper towel. Insert by grabbing with tweezers/hemostats/pliers in the middle and inserting into case - leaving 1/10” space above powder. IT BURNS CLEAN! (I use it in my .405 Winchester.)
Attached Files
Pat:
If your bullet is plain based, then the recommendations from Lee's 2nd edition Modern Reloading will make a good recommendation based on Ballistic pressure of your load in psi . Their chart will tell you what BHN will put your load in their defined sweet spot for your working load pressure.
Sometimes it is difficult to locate info on your load pressure in psi but my conversion formula is within practical limit for this function if you can locate CUP for your load and convert it to psi, the results will be within 3000 units.
ANSI CUP to ANSI psi: (CUP X 1.515586) - 17902 = psi within 3000 units
Lee equates alloy ultimate strength of your alloy in psi minus their sweet factor to the ballistic pressure of your load in psi to keep your alloy in the range a plain base alloy bullet will obturate reliably at your load pressure by recommending an alloy BHN for your load pressure.
If you know the approximate pressure of your load in psi, and don't have the book, post your pressure and I will look up the recommended alloy BHN for you. That info will also be in the chart with the Lee Hardness test kit if you have that. The Lee site also has available the instructions for their hardness test kit and you could find the chart there for working load pressure to alloy BHN recommendation there too.
Of course, if your bullet is gas checked, that will extend the load pressure range for your alloy to an amount to be determined by you. Lee's data is only suitable for plain based bullets and gas checks extend that range considerably.
Gary
Attached Files
Finally got around to honing out my LEE push thru to .434. I have found that .444 Handi is shooting the best with 35 grains H4198, 1 grain polyester filler and my homemade lube. I've now gone from .431 to .434. It gets a little better each time. I'm hoping with the bullets at .434 it will be optimum. Patience is a virtue as they say & I take it one step at a time. I am also wondering whether I should be using a slightly softer alloy rather than Lyman 2? Any info concerning the BHN would be welcome. Thanks, Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
Attached Files
RE the cleaning patches in post #37, I get that with LLA in anything I use it in. Going with the 45/45/10 mix and using way less lube takes care of that. It's surprising to me how little it really takes. I'm glad you're having fun with your .444. Very interesting cartridge I think.
Yea, it's turning out to be a fun endeavor. I'm really enjoying it. That big old 300 grainier rolling along at 1700 fps is pretty cool. Not exactly a “flat shooting bullet” to say the least. I loaded up some tonight with exactly 1 grain polyester filler and 35 grs. IMR4198. I pan lubed these bullets with my home made lube. My home made lube works well as I use it in my 7.62 x 54R without a hitch. It consists of 1 1/2 lb. beeswax, 1 lb. Vaseline, 5% carnauba flakes & 5% Ivory Soap (stearate). It's not real soft like the SPG lube & not real hard either. In the winter I have to heat the sizer a little when not pan lubing.
Pat:dance
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
Attached Files
RE the cleaning patches in post #37, I get that with LLA in anything I use it in. Going with the 45/45/10 mix and using way less lube takes care of that. It's surprising to me how little it really takes. I'm glad you're having fun with your .444. Very interesting cartridge I think.
Attached Files
Gary, Thank you so much for the info. It is greatly appreciated! No, I didn't get my bore snake yet but am working on it. Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
Attached Files
Pat, I've used 4 different types of filler in my big bore, BPI, PRPSB, COW,and Dacron. the Dacron is the least expensive and easy to use:
http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PRE&Product_Code=PRPSB22&Category_Code=BUFFER>http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&StoreCode=PRE&ProductCode=PRPSB22&CategoryCode=BUFFER PRPSB is not very compressible like BPI so it has to be measured more carefully but it fills the space and cleans bores great. it is a spherical particulate plastic filler and BPI is compressible flakes.
Didn't you get a Hoppe's BoreSnake for the .444 yet? I take 1 pull through every 5 shots with my .458. NOTE: If you haven't polished that bore with a BoreSnake and Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and Rust Remover per my posted method yet, your .444 will shoot cleaner and tighter groups too when you do!
Gary
Attached Files
Pat, when i started loading 45-70 i used dacron really polly filler for making quilts. it was all i could find. later i read where folks were using 1/4 sheet of toilet paper. here i changed what i was doing and have had good results. I take one square of single ply tp and fold it in half cut it and then cut the length into five equal picecs then i have ten pieces. i now use 1/10th sheet tp by placing one of the strips over the case and pushing it down to the powder. when the bullet is seated it gives a acordian effect and holds the powder against the primer. I have carried this over to 38-55 with good results. I use a 38-55 case to seat the tp in the 45-70 and a unsharpened pencil for the 38-55. I am using IMR-4198. this may not answer you dacron question but may be something you want to consider. good luck. m
Attached Files
For a 300 grain bullet I would suggest starting at about 44 grains of H322 and maxing out at 48 or 49 grains .
With XMP5744 I would suggest starting at 30 grains and topping out at about 36 grains .
Attached Files
Pat, that is just 4198. carbon on the patches. If your charge leaves enough room for BPI filler and the charge is compressed 105% with BPI, the carbon will go way down.
A larger diameter bullet will help if it will fit, 4198 likes pressure. Some shooters claim less carbon from 5744, RX7 or IMR3031.
4895 would be worse, but compression with BPI fixes that too. The black means unburned carbon that didn't have enough pressure to consume the carbon. This is common in big bores unless you are shooting MAX/compressed loads. I don't believe the lube has anything to do with it.
Gary
Gary, The color in the picture is not true. The patches are actually dark brown in color. Went back out to the range & as long as I scrubbed the bore every few shots I got groups consistently at around 1 1/2"At 50 yds.. I'm going to increase the diameter to .434 In that there is some ( very little ) leading. I would like to know more about the use of Dacron filler in this scenario. I am not at all displeased with my results thus far as the deer, bear or moose at that range with the accuracy I'm getting would be in a very bad way. Now that I've got it shooting fairly well . . . It is playtime! I may try some 5744 as I have a pound on hand although I'd like to save that for my 7.62 x 54R. I'm actually quite pleased with the results so far. To get these results this quick ain't too bad!
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
Attached Files
Pat, that is just 4198. carbon on the patches. If your charge leaves enough room for BPI filler and the charge is compressed 105% with BPI, the carbon will go way down.
A larger diameter bullet will help if it will fit, 4198 likes pressure. Some shooters claim less carbon from 5744, RX7 or IMR3031.
4895 would be worse, but compression with BPI fixes that too. The black means unburned carbon that didn't have enough pressure to consume the carbon. This is common in big bores unless you are shooting MAX/compressed loads. I don't believe the lube has anything to do with it.
Gary
Attached Files
I put new Loctite on the rear ring mount screw & tightened it down pretty good. It really didn't seem to be real loose but broke free easily when I applied pressure & the scope didn't seem to have any movement upon close examination. Upon cleaning I found several pieces of lead on the patches. I have since cut my load by 2 grs. 4198. But what surprised me was the dark brown crap that loaded up on my patches! What can that be? How about LEE liquid Alox! I really don't like the stuff but since I was using the LEE sizer, I decided to tumble lube using that stuff. Lube problem? I'll pan lube the next batch with my home made lube. I have three patches sitting here loaded with that stuff! No more of that. I'm headed back out to the range in a few minutes. I'm really thinking that my problem was due to a fouled barrel even though it looked shiny upon looking down it. Now that I've cleaned it, I guess it wasn't so shiny. I'm taking my cleaning kit along. I'm going to scrub the barrel after every so many shots. We'll see.
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
Attached Files
Glad you got it shooting Pat. That load kicks about like a 12 ga slug gun, doesn't it? Weight the stock as I mentioned, that will make it easier on your scope/mount also.
Gary
Attached Files
At least I know this . . . The 300 gr. Mountain Mold bullet is deadly accurate in that rifle. When I started out cutting bullet holes at 25 yds. I said, “Oh my lord!” Then at 50 yds they were in a 1” circle I was elated.
In my always biased opinion I would say that gun oughtta be able to keep three in 3/4-1” at 100 yards once you work the demons out !
Attached Files
Just got back from the range & the new bullet shot incredibly well. At 25 yds I was cutting bullet holes & at 50 yds. I was shooting 1” groups. After about 15 rounds everything started opening up . . . badly. I checked for leading & found none. In fact the bore was absolutely shiney clean. After some inspection I found that the mounting screw on the rear scope ring was a little loose. I could turn it by hand even though it had had blue Loctite on it. Onandaga had warned me about the recoil on these big straight wall cartridges being different than usual. I put more Loctite on that mount screw & torqued it down. All the other screws were tight. The issue may not be the mount at all. It may be the Bushnell Trophy scope. We'll try it again tomorrow. At least I know this . . . The 300 gr. Mountain Mold bullet is deadly accurate in that rifle. When I started out cutting bullet holes at 25 yds. I said, “Oh my lord!” Then at 50 yds they were in a 1” circle I was elated. Then of course was dismayed when the shots opened up. I'll get to the root of the problem. The recoil is substantial but no more than my .270 Winchester with full power jacketed. I'm loading 37 grains of 4198 & even though I found that to be a starting load, I may cut it back to 35 grs..
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
Attached Files
The Ultra Varmint is a tack driver with my standard 223 load of 55 grain bullet and 21 grains of IMR 4198.
I am thinking I need the NEF Varmint in 204 Ruger for my wife once she arrives here .
That'll be her starter rifle and after she can handle that from the bench I am thinking I wanna get her a 7mm-08 . Sorry no cast bullets in either of these for her ,
It's my intention to eventually get her outfitted with a Savage 220 left hand 20 gauge rifled bolt action , the Handi in 7mm-08 and a 45 caliber inline muzzle loader so she can go with me where ever I hunt for deer if she wishes .
Attached Files
I just filled my Buffalo Classic with a bunch of old mixed up shot and it helps. Remove the forend and carefully fit the hole to the stud after de-burring the stud and put a rubber O ring around the stud. Check that the wood floats freely and put her back together. That's it. I like a heavy trigger as it slows down my breathing at the bench so I left it alone. Breaks like a piece of glass. Well made rifles that shoot very well indeed.
Attached Files
Greetings from the Great White North. I bought a Buffalo Classic and an Ultra Varmint last fall. We had a cold snowy winter so I haven't been able to play with them much until this past week as we are finally starting to thaw out. I LOVE these simple well made rifles. Absolutely perfect barrels and tight chambers. The Ultra Varmint is a tack driver with my standard 223 load of 55 grain bullet and 21 grains of IMR 4198. It shoots gas checked cast bullets pretty good and with a little bit of fiddling with powder and seating depth she will be a winner I think. The Buffalo Classic shoots 405 and 500 grain Lymans really well but the recoil is more than I want for casual plinking so I have been working with a Lee 340 grainer that casts at exactly .457 as it is supposed to. Serious leading and no accuracy at all. So I lapped the mould out to .461 and run them through my old Lyman 450 to .459. Shoots great now and no leading. The Lyman moulds throw .459 as cast so I just Alox them and away we go. I can honestly say that I bet you going to love your new Handi Rifle. I'm going to get an Ultra Hunter in .308 as well. Happy shooting. Be safe.
Attached Files
