I am looking for input on cast loads for the 9.3X74. Most of the loading data I have been able to find is for jacketed bullets and larger game. I need a whitetail deer load in the 1800+ fps range. Does anyone have experience using 5744 in this cartridge. I am currently trying N135 but I am uncomfortable with the lack of data.
Ruger No 1 9.3X74R
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- Last Post 21 August 2017
If your bullets are cast of a BHN 15 alloy like Lyman #2 or Hardball pistol alloy, and your bullets are gas checked, they will be strong enough for START level load data from jacketed bullet load data, but very little beyond that.
Alliant 5744 burn rate is identical to H or IMR 4198 and a good choice for similar applications.
If your recommended START level load from jacketed bullet data shoots well with your cast /gas checked BHN 15 alloy, I'd suggest you just stay there. You will shortly run out of accuracy past that level with cast bullets. You may have to back down a little for best accuracy, but maybe not.
The powder manufacturer recommended START loads present no pressure danger for either jacketed or cast bullets. So, don't be uncomfortable trying START loads with cast bullets. Actually, cast bullets have much less bore friction resistance than jacketed bullets so pressures are significantly lower for the same charge pushing a cast bullet versus a jacketed bullet of equal weight.
Vihtavuori 135 is suitable for all popular bullet weights in 9.3X74R except the lightest bullet at 193 grains and the START loads are listed here:
For cast bullets use the data from the same weight or next heavier jacketed bullet START load.
NOTE: it is generally not safe to go more than a few percent lighter in weight than recommended START loads. Ignition danger or ignition problems are common when going that low and out of the recommended range for the powder. Gary
with your strong ruger 1, i think you could carefully extrapolate cast loads from the 35 whelen; your case capacity is about the same, bullets diameter about the same .
i like the idea of the rimmed case, especially for the ruger 1, and also for cast bullets .
Thank you for the thoughts guys. Gary I share your concern about using N135 with loads much below the book starting loads. As that puts me around 2100 fps I am hoping to find an alternative.
4198 would certainly be a viable option I am sure.
Ken, I think I will look at 35 whelen data. I do recall some CBA members writing about whitetail loads for a 35 Whelen. Actually I have developed some loads for my 9.3X57 but they were based on a 358 Winchester so I hate to extrapolate from them all of the way to the 9.3X74 w/o other sources of info.
What weight cast bullet do you have for the 9.3X74R?
Minnesota Deer, just like deer anywhere only need 1,000 foot pounds impact to the vital area for humane harvest.
You state you have VV N135 powder. Tell me your cast bullet weight and I will show you how I figure a safe Deer load for VV N 135 and give you some other suggestions too.
Just tell me your cast bullet weight and if your cast bullet is designed for gas checks or not.
Sorry for the tardy reply. I was out of town yesterday.
I have cast bullets of 260 gr and 300 gr. Both have gas checks. I prefer the 260 gr for whitetail.
Use the VV start data for a 270 gr bullet for your 260 gr gas checked bullet, load at 47.8 gr N135 and expect a velocity of 2140 fps. VV data for 270 gr:
17,5 270 Naturalis Lapua 94,0 3.701 N135 3,10 47.8 649 2129 3,30 50.9 706 2316
use the VV start data for a 300 gr bullet for your 300 gr GC bullet, load at 41.7 gr N135 and expect a velocity of 1810 fps. VV data for 300 gr:
19,4 300 A-Frame Swift 92,2 3.630 N135 2,70 41.7 547 1795 2,94 45.4 593 1946
The jacketed bullet START loads from VV are fine for cast gas checked bullets. A moderate crimp of your brass to the cast bullet will aid ignition consistency for these safe low pressure cast bullet loads.
Your 260 gr bullet at 2140 will deliver just over 1,000 foot pounds to 200 yards. That is the effective humane harvest limit for Deer with this load.
Your 300 gr bullet at 1810 will deliver just over 1,000 foot pounds to 160 yards. That is the effective humane harvest limit for Deer with this load.
You can figure your foot pounds for any range at:
Either one of those loads would be excellent for deer hunting to the range limits I cited. Neither one of the loads are too high pressure for gas checked bullets and both should have good accuracy if your bullet fit is excellent.
Personally, I would just try both loads with 10 shots at 50 yards and then sight in the more accurate one for Deer hunting. If recoil is a concern, the heavier 300 gr bullet at the load level I recommended will have less recoil than the 260 gr bullet at the load level I recommended. The 260 gr bullet load I recommended will thump you pretty good with recoil.
It feels like fall today and my thoughts turned to deer hunting. I have yet to take a deer with my Ruger No 1 so this year is the year. I am building a deer shack this summer so I can spend more time in the woods. There will be plenty of time for loafing in the heavy cover where ranges are short. There is a picture of my current load attached - mostly for our amusement. It has a 260 gr bullet with 42 gr of N135. My intent is to go with a lighter load. The new NOE mold I have is for a 210 gr gas check bullet. It should work great. Perhaps either 5744 or 4759 will work well with the light bullet.
Just thinkin out loud.
Picture will follow. I need to resize it first.
Here it is as not everyone has seen this round.
I think you may have trouble finding a load as mild as you want, but, the load you have with the 260 grain bullet IMHO ought to be just fine for deer, even though it's clearly "more than enough".
Think of it this way - Elmer Keith would heartily approve!
Yes he would. A 210 gr bullet at 1800 fps won't exactly be a light load. That is very close to the 35 Remington. I mostly can't leave well enough alone when I get a new mold.
What the heck Jim. Are you trying to kill the poor deer just a little bit? lol Gp
Just trying to not kill myself on the back end . I also find myself subconsciously reacting to the recent (jacketed) trend to develop and recommend huge cartridges burning powder by the cup full. The last deer I shot that was bullet proof was when I was 15 years old. Many of us used hand me down 44-40s in those days. The neighbor kid on the next farm had an old 45-90 that belonged to his grandpa in the railroading days. My Gawd as we would say, that thing was suitable for "Buffalo" not whitetails.
Sorry for waxing nostalgic. My old dog has cancer and our days are numbered. I find myself looking backward frequently right now.
I had the same need to have a cast for my 9.3 too. Had a mould blank sent to NEI back in 2012, but had issues with the end product being undersize by way to much, sent it back and was fixed in about two months, I still have the issue with finding a gas check that will fit the cast boolit. So, I have decided to try using one of my 264 grain cast that I have for my Win 375 with gas check and have run it through a new sizing die of .369 dia and see how it will work in my Ruger No.1 Here is a before and after image. Resized on the left, original 375 cast on the right.
I tried sizing down some 375 bullets but the alloy was fairly hard and the results weren't great.
My notes reminded me that I used 35 cal gas checks on the 9.3 bullets. They seem to be Ok. I did not anneal them.
I may just go plain base this year.A while back I acquired a Lyman mold for a 245 gr PB bullet. It shouldn't be too difficult to develop a close cover load for bullet proof deer.
So far I have not been so lucky on finding the correct gas check size. May have to either do some custom, which means I may have to get a custom maker or purchase some custom made to fit my base. I mean come on.........a gas check base of .33 who does this???????
It is inconvenient but can you get by using a fiber wad and some filler. I used to do that with my 45-70. I was using the rifle to hunt mule deer and wanted an "express" load for long range. Live and learn but actually the wad and filler worked just fine.
I have looked for the old Lyman mould 366408, but I now think if the resized 375 works, it is close enough to that old lyman mould I will use it instead. I might look over some designs and have a mould for a 400 grain cast made up for this. It would be for low pressure, black powder shooting and a velocity in the 1400 fps area with a gas check just in case I want to crank it up. I am going to check to see how heavy a load I can push with this caliber, would love to push a 500 grainer, but that may not be possible.
Have you tried Gator checks (available from NOE). They seem to work fine on my 280gr. bullets for my 9.3x 57mm.
I think Accurate Moulds carries a 330 or 350 grain bullet. A 500 gr. would be way too long. I doubt that you could use anything much heavier than what is available for the .375 h&h. Brodie
Accurate has a number of 9.3 molds catalogued I believe. I'll look at the gas check shank sizes after coffee.
Has anyone actually used black powder in this cartridge? I have several pounds of fake stuff some of which is cartridge grade. It would be nice to use it for something other than lawn fertilizer.
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