Powder Lifetime
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- Last Post 30 April 2016
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I have some powder's that have lasted fifty years now. IMR 4350 and 3031, bullseye, red dot. These powders were stored in a garage in Long Beach Ca. and here in Flag. AZ. The lids were closed tightly and they were stored on the garage floor. None of those mentioned show any signs of deterioration. Maybe I have just been lucky, but stored against such a massive heat sink as that concrete slab I suspect that the temperature has been about as constant as possible. In Ca. the highs got to a 100 F and the same here in Flag. The lows have been much different. Flagstaff has gotten to -29F and Long Beach neared 32*F as the lowest Temps.
I hope that this data is some use to you. As for me I just load and shoot. Brodie
B.E.Brickey
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Brodie, I think Vihtavouri's estimate is quite conservative. The life of powder is controled by the original quality and the % and type of stabilizers. After manufacture the storage temperature is the determining factor. This is true of all smokeless powders. Steve
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Eutectic, I agree with you completely. The higher the temp the faster the degradation. I was one class short of a BA in Chemistry, and loved organic chem.
I just wanted to give you an example of how my powders have been stored and their longevity. I think that I have lost one can of Bulls Eye over that +- 50 yrs. The optimum would be to have a temperature controlled safe or say an old refrigerator to keep your powder in. It might even improve the storage if you could do it in an inert atmosphere. I know that all this sounds extreme, but I knew a gun collector who had a similar set up for his fire arms. A temp and humidity controlled walk in safe that he could flood with dry Nitrogen gas. He never shot any of the guns, just wiped them down and such like. Me I like to use mine, and from the picture with your post I think that you do as well. Brodie
B.E.Brickey
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When my local gunsmith retired about 10 years ago, I got to go through his back storage area when he was selling out. On a shelf, next to each other, where two cans of Hi-Vel #2 that appeared to be from before WWII. The lot numbers were the same. On one the top of the cardboard can had rusted away and the cardboard was about half eaten away. The can next to it was perfect and I shot it up, it appeared to work just right for 1950's load data. FWIW, Ric
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Rick, I think that the difference is exposure to moisture in the air. I know that my can of BE that went bad had been opened, and the other cans (that are still good) have not been opened. Also this was in Long Beach Ca. near the ocean where the damp sea air came in every afternoon and evening. The can that went bad had been sealed back up, but I still suspect that atmospheric moisture helped to drive the degradation reaction. Brodie
B.E.Brickey
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I recently inherited loading supplies from my dad. He kept his in a filing cabinet in his shop which was connected to the garage. He did keep heat on in the winter but nothing in the summer. Since he lived in Ohio, his summers ran about mid-80's. Not as much humidity as I have here in Alabama but still some. My point is this, I've been using powders/primers that date back to the mid-1970's with VERY little waste. One can of powder that was opened and I think one pack of primers. Good shelf life if you ask me.
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Brodie,
I think Vihtavouri's estimate is quite conservative. The life of powder is controlled by the original quality and the % and type of stabilizers. After manufacture the storage temperature is the determining factor. This is true of all smokeless powders.
Steve
From discussions I had with Nils Kavale at Norma when I was at Ruger, I believe Vihtavouri's shelf life is conservative by a factor of at least two. I know for a fact that VPT43 headstamped 7.62x54R and 9mm ammunition I tested in the 1980s gave normal pressure and velocity and the 9mm Parabellum ammunition was more uniform and accurate than fresh NATO Ball ammo by IVI, FNB, MEN, DAG and WCC which we tested at the same time.
I am still shooting Hercules Bullseye powder which I bought on Commercial Row at Camp Perry in 1967, and it seems more uniform than current Alliant production.
I am also still shooting FA34 Ball M1 caliber .30 which is alm ost as good as M72 Match ammo, and the brass is also wonderful.
I am also shooting TW54 Ball M2 and TW55 M1911 Ball in .45 ACP which is simply wonderful.
All of these ammos were stored below ground in a residential basement, with the crates stacked off the floor on wooden pallets and covered with a shelter half, since they were placed there by the original owner. Larry has moved into assisted living, but Dennis Carlini, John Eckenrode and I helped him move and divided up the ammo.
If I live long enough to shoot it all, I will be happy. If I should pass on before that occurs, I want someone to test the good old stuff and write a report for the Fouling Shot after the faithful divide up my gear.
Winchester 8-1/2-120 large rifle primers in yellow sleeves with wooden separators are also still good. I believe they are from the 1950s...
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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My father prior to moving out of CA had some 4831 of ww2 status. It was sold in paper bags then and he added it to a drug company mater pack pill bottle with a typical played metal lid and it was plastic, circa 1960's.
I adopted the bottle for fertilizer since he couldn't remember for sure it was 4831 and I sure as hell didn't trust it. Dad hasn't reloaded in better than 35 years.
It was under an rcbs powder measure and for a couple of months I smelled somethings really bad, acid bad. Tough t it was food storage gone bad, then I got accused by the wife of my chemicals leaking, etc. finally my bad sniffer went to work and right in front of me was the bottle. The fumes from the powder had not only caused enormous corrosion eating the entire steel kid but it also ate nearly the entire powder measure lower drum/adjuster.
I was pissed that fertilizer went so bad that it very nearly killed a good measure but also that it took me so Long to identify.
I burned the powder, it was difficult to light, would not stay lit, produced little gas output.
It was interesting enough to take pics. I'll post them if I still have them.
Bottom line is all that has been stated is true in prior posts.
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