CAST .22 BULLET ACCURACY VARIES WIDELY, DAY TO DAY

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  • Last Post 04 February 2017
joeb33050 posted this 21 January 2017

Cast 22 bullet accuracy varies a lot from day to day. Savage Striker 22-250, 225646M, SR4756, 8.0 gr, 5 shots 100 yards “ 

4/25/16---.250, 1.1, .850; avg 1.067 

12/2/15---1.25, 1.6, 1.4, 1.05, .85, avg 1.23 

2/29/16---1.5, 1.15, .7, 1.6, 1.2; avg 1.23 

5/4/16---1.6, .95; avg 1.275 

3/5/16---1.75, 1.25, 1.6, .95, 1.85; avg 1.48 

3/3/16---2, 1.175, 3, 1.875, 1.6; avg 1.93 

The average for the 25 groups above is 1.404” 

1/20/17---The first 9 shots were all over the paper, no detectable groups. 

I have tried to find the reason for this variation, and so far it escapes me. There are many other examples.

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joeb33050 posted this 04 February 2017

Joe:  I have a lot of 22 Lee Bators (55gr.) and 60gr. Saeco bullets cast up if you need some to give a try in the new barrel please feel free to PM me for samples.  Gp

GP;

The only thing common element to huge groups, (that I can see), is MY cast bullets. So I loaded some of your Bators, 60 gr Saecos and 227-80s, a dozen or so each, to see if that's going to get the Shilen barrel shooting groups. I'm getting stumped here, the guns shoot jacketed low velocity fine, cast with everything else the same and basketball sized groups.

I'll try casting with a softer alloy when I get the softer metal to tone down the lino.

joe b.

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OU812 posted this 02 February 2017

I also have a new chrome moly 9” twist Shilen barrel threaded to another Remington 700 rifle. This short chambered barrel was chambered using a PTG  NATO reamer. During break in I was shooting 1/2” groups with Sierra 69 grain match bullets.

I have not taken up much time shooting cast with it. I did test the NOE 227-80-SP briefly, but I had to size down the bore ride section to get the longer bullet to chamber more easily...I was shooting 1 1/2” groups using 45-45-10 tumble lube. I am sure it is capable of grouping better.

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SierraHunter posted this 02 February 2017

How about humidity and temperature?

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joeb33050 posted this 02 February 2017

Gary's method works IF the barrel is not too fouled to begin with. I have seen hard fouling that can be very difficult to remove. I would scrub the bore with solvent and brass or bronze wool wrapped around brass brush. Then coat the barrel with Alox before firing. It may take three fouling shots before accuracy comes in. Then do Gary's cleaning method.

That big case will hold more Tite Group without pressures being too high...I would not be afraid to go up to 9 grains.

The bullet must align in throat strait to shoot strait and without wobble.

Have you tried sizing to .227 

I hope your gas checks are staying on during flight. The last batch of Gator checks I purchased are .001 thicker than Hornadays and fit all my .224 bullets without flaring.

What is the rate of twist again? 1/14?

I do not have a lot of experience with your Lyman bullet...seems the best I could do with that bullet was about 4” groups.

Too many things to list that would maybe help or improve accuracy.

 After 10 cast and 29 jacketed bullets, three Hoppes #9 patches, then nylon brushing with #9, the 4th patch was clean. Wait, clean #9 patch, brush again, clean patch. Overnight after #9 patch, this morning, clean patch. No green/blue, no copper fouling. Shooting 9 shots into 11 5/8” at 100 yards isn't about barrel fouling. The poor jacketed performance might be due to poor bullet quality and lotsa mirage and wind, but it ain't about stability in this 9” twist Shilen barrel.

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OU812 posted this 01 February 2017

Joe, you won't change results unless you make a major change in something and evaluate just that change. Try something completely different that works for me and is something that you show no interest in.. Get a Hoppe's BoreSnake and use nothing else for the test, Pull it through 3 times on a dirty rifle before you start a string, then pull it through once every 5 shots, Use nothing on the BoreSnake, no solvents or oil. Just use it clean and dry.  This routine maintains relatively constant bore condition. It is not immaculate and that is the point.  Your starting from an immaculate bore leaves a bore that quickly changes. The changing bore conditions from starting with an immaculate bore stinks for maintaining relative consistent bore condition.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/260083/hoppes-boresnake-bore-cleaner-rifle

 

Gary

 

Gary's method works IF the barrel is not too fouled to begin with. I have seen hard fouling that can be very difficult to remove. I would scrub the bore with solvent and brass or bronze wool wrapped around brass brush. Then coat the barrel with Alox before firing. It may take three fouling shots before accuracy comes in. Then do Gary's cleaning method.

That big case will hold more Tite Group without pressures being too high...I would not be afraid to go up to 9 grains.

The bullet must align in throat strait to shoot strait and without wobble.

Have you tried sizing to .227 

I hope your gas checks are staying on during flight. The last batch of Gator checks I purchased are .001 thicker than Hornadays and fit all my .224 bullets without flaring.

What is the rate of twist again? 1/14?

I do not have a lot of experience with your Lyman bullet...seems the best I could do with that bullet was about 4” groups.

Too many things to list that would maybe help or improve accuracy.

 

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joeb33050 posted this 01 February 2017

2/1/17 SHILEN BARREL 22-250 ON M10 SAVAGE

NEW LOT OF 225646M, 7.5/TITEGROUP, 9 SHOTS IN 11 5/8"(10TH SHOT ???)

MIDWAY DOGTOWN 55 GR, 8/SR4756, 1.7", 1.4", 1.7", 1.075"

???

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joeb33050 posted this 01 February 2017

Joe,

Today I was weighing powder charges and discovered that my Lyman beam scale was not operating smoothly. So I dusted scales off and cleaned pivot area well. Scales seem to operate a lots better now. Lots of things can cause inconsistency.

The older long cut IMR 4198 is very difficult to meter, but works well in my 223

OU;

I keep checking my RCBS 10-10, Pact electronic and Lyman 55s. Can't find a problem. AND, jacketed bullets loaded with same scale and measure shoot nicely. I wish it was the scale or measure.

joe b.

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OU812 posted this 01 February 2017

Joe,

Today I was weighing powder charges and discovered that my Lyman beam scale was not operating smoothly. So I dusted scales off and cleaned pivot area well. Scales seem to operate a lots better now. Lots of things can cause inconsistency.

The older long cut IMR 4198 is very difficult to meter, but works well in my 223

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GP Idaho posted this 31 January 2017

Hope you got the PM Jim. I'm still getting use to this new forum lay out. Gp

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GP Idaho posted this 29 January 2017

Scearcy;  I'd be glad too help you out Jim. I'll PM you.  Gp

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GP Idaho posted this 29 January 2017

Hello Joe, I'd forgotten what was in that batch. If any more are needed feel free to ask.  I've been a bit stuck on the TiteGroup powder since you got me interested in the 22s. The only Blue Dot I've tried with them were those few loads I chronographed for you and they were pretty under powered IMO.  Unique is one I'll try if it ever stops snowing. We're on a near record year for snow here in Idaho and it just keeps coming. I'll be down to Florida mid Feb. to mid March and could really use some sunshine. I've had a few excellent groups with the flat base 60s using just 3.5gr of TiteGroup, this in 223 and have tried both RL7 and 4227 with no improvement out of my 223s just burned more powder. I haven't shot  my Savage 22-250 much lately as the 1 in 14 twist isn't very friendly to the bullets that drop from the moulds I own. Thanks again for your help with the 22s.  Gp                       

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joeb33050 posted this 28 January 2017

Joe:  I have a lot of 22 Lee Bators (55gr.) and 60gr. Saeco bullets cast up if you need some to give a try in the new barrel please feel free to PM me for samples.  Gp

 

Gp;

I have some Bator and ?60 gr Saeco bullets you sent in the past. Some Saeco are plain base-do you have a blue dot or unique load for these? 223 or 22-250? If these show promise I may ask for more.

Thanks;

joe b.

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Scearcy posted this 28 January 2017

GP Idaho

I have an 8 twist 22-250 sitting in the basement which has never tasted cast. Joe has really captured my attention with his work. Could I buy  or trade for a bunch of those Saeco bullets?  I happen to have 800 new 6MM bullets and a couple of thousand 30 cal bullets if like me you prefer trading to selling??

Jim

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OU812 posted this 28 January 2017

Barrel fouling, poor bullet to throat fit, inconsistent chamber pressures............and so on.

I am slowly figuring it out...I think?

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GP Idaho posted this 27 January 2017

Joe:  I have a lot of 22 Lee Bators (55gr.) and 60gr. Saeco bullets cast up if you need some to give a try in the new barrel please feel free to PM me for samples.  Gp

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frnkeore posted this 27 January 2017

At this point, with a new barrel, you need to measure the bore and groove size, as well as the bore ride and bands of the bullet. Maybe it fits ok but, you don't know that until it's measured.

If you can't do that, make sure that you push the nose of the bullet into bore, at the muzzle, to see if it engraves well.

Again, I would like to suggest the Lee 55 gr bullet. It has a larger bore riding nose than most of the others. At least try to borrow some.

Frank

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 27 January 2017

unexpected results ...

some of our greatest breakthroughs in knowledge have come from unexpected results ....  line spectra instead of continous frequency range of energy of atomic emission  ..

...that was the good news ....

hmmmm ...

ken

oh, at times in the past when facing a seemingly paradoxical dilemma ... i reach into my billfold and pull out my little  * rescue * ... card ...

it reads '"  there is something wrong “

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joeb33050 posted this 26 January 2017

The Shilen 22-250 barrel, 9' twist, went on a Savage M 10, and break in began.After a lot of shooting and cleaning,  The 21 225646M 8/sr4756 loads wouldn't stay in a basketball at 100 yards, so it ain't the temperature or twist or gun or shooter or anything  I can see.

At the end of the session, Hornady 53 gr V Max, 7.5  Titegroup went into 1.2” and .8” for 5 shots at 100 yards.

joe b.  

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joeb33050 posted this 25 January 2017

Joe 

Do we know the velocity of the load on 80 - 90 degree days vs the velocity on 50 degree days? 

LMG

Well, I don't. I don't know how much v varies with t, and can't remember reading anything about it. I gave my chronograph away a while back. A guy came to the range with a radar chronograph a few weeks ago, maybe I need one of those. I've got 21 of the 225646M ctgs left, and a Shilen barrel due today, 9” twist. I'll try the ctgs in the new barrel.

joe b. 

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HuskerP7M8 posted this 25 January 2017

You're correct. Proves I shouldn't speed read and then post. LOL

Landy

“In God we trust; all others must bring data.” “Without data, you're just another person with an opinion.” “If you can't describe what you are doing as a process, you don't know what you're doing.” “It is not enough to do your best, you must know what to do, and then do your best.” W. Edwards Deming (October 14, 1900 - December 20, 1993)

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