Making Another Bump Die

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  • Last Post 05 March 2018
OU812 posted this 17 January 2018

Using my mini lathe I made a nose punch to align and shorten the nose of bullet during bumping. Taper is a strait 40 degrees included angle. This should help prevent nose from slumping when using softer alloys or hard alloys at faster velocity.

Ordered a .224 diameter chucking reamer to cut bump die body so that most all style bullets can be bumped for better alignment. Throat of rifle is cut strait @.2243 diameter for LBT style bullets.

Diameter of aluminum stem is .223, diameter of  steel die body will be .2240

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OU812 posted this 05 March 2018

Thanks for the cleaning tip.

I seem to shoot very good groups when ever I use this nasty stuff ?

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Brodie posted this 05 March 2018

Jim, Yes alox is very nasty and hard to clean.  Try using Xylene or Toluene first.  A couple of passes with a good wet patch ought to help.  In fact anything with a benzene ring as part of its chemical makeup.

 

B.E.Brickey

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OU812 posted this 27 February 2018

I believe the match winning taper design bullet stemmed from Veral Smiths longer free bore method. As the strait and longer free bore throat erodes it begins to taper.

I ran out of H4198 and received my new 8 lb order today. Lately I have been shooting very good groups using Titegroup, soft alloy and SPG lube.

I wish I had something more constructive to say.

 

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OU812 posted this 18 February 2018

  

"You show a throat diameter of 0.2262" in an above post. If you bump the body as well as the gas check you should solve the undersize body diameter problem. Your nose engraving looks ok.................."

 

I have five separate dies cut and have bumped the first band above  gas check to .2262. This seems to work best with harder Linotype.

It seems that oversizing the gas check diameter really improves accuracy. 

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45 2.1 posted this 17 February 2018

I first seat gas check and lube bullets using oversize .226 die. 

You show a throat diameter of 0.2262" in an above post. If you bump the body as well as the gas check you should solve the undersize body diameter problem. Your nose engraving looks ok..................

 

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OU812 posted this 17 February 2018

The mini lathe lets me explore different ideas such as nose shapes, bullet diameters, gas check diameters, bullet tapers.

Lube grooves must be filled with lube before bumping or they WILL collapse. I first seat gas check and lube bullets using oversize .226 die. Next I size smaller .2245 nose first in the lee sizer.

This gas check design works well. Taper cut at base of die using VLD chamfer tool. Bumping fills and expands gas check. 

 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 17 February 2018

fascinating.  that gives us a lot to think about.

maybe gas checks are really really important . 

***************

i thought my trick moly lube was very consistent on my 22 rimfires .... which is why i used it ... for long shoots ... i just pushed a rag through every 50 shots ... and shot 1/2 moa ....  but never as ultimately accurate for 10 shots as the factory lapua/eley/federal lubes .   dang trade-offs  .
[ my lube was synthetic ball bearing lube with 20 per cent fine moly by volume ]

more ! more !

********

the goal of course is that after i read how you did this i ( me and us all ) can just go to my loader bench and load up some 1 moa loads ...

thanks, ken

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OU812 posted this 16 February 2018

Alox is some nasty stuff and more difficult to clean from barrel. Trying different lubes.

Also trying different diameters and shapes. I am shooting verygood groups, but still searching for better consistency. Bumping the bullet with strait shape does not work (5" groups), Bumping just the gas check diameter larger (about .001" larger) than bullet diameter results in better 1/2" groups.

 

 

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OU812 posted this 10 February 2018

Stopping hot gas blow by is the trick. You must match GAS CHECK  DIAMETER to starting diameter of throat to prevent hot gas cutting of bullet. Sizing smaller than throat is a NO NO using harder alloys such as linotype.

Sanding a slight bell shape or cutting a slight chamfer at base (gas check area) of bump die will help very well. 

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OU812 posted this 07 February 2018

I pan lubed the bullets with SPG. Instead of using a double boiler to melt lube, I heated lube in oven at 240 degrees. After cooling and punching out bullets, insert next set of bullets in holes and reheat (about 30minutes). A silicone pan will help release lube cake much easier. 

You can also change lube in Lubrasizer by heating unit in oven @ 240 degrees. Going higher in temp will cause flames or burn the lube. Use aluminum foil to catch melted lube. Per: Veral Smth

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OU812 posted this 07 February 2018

Let us know it coating the bearing surfaces has any effect.  It seems so reasonable and I used to do it a lot but when tested I couldn't dectect any difference but who knows.

John

I will shoot 20 shot strings to see if it works better than strait SPG or soft LBT. I do know that barrel is dirtier after using the Alox coating. I cleaned after every 10 shots and the SPG cleaned the easiest. Patches came out looking cleaner or less dark when using SPG. More testing needed to be certain. 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 06 February 2018

good news indeed ... looks like you are getting it together with the 223 .

thanks for mentioning the high pressure oopsie ... good to be reminded .... 

a  few years ago i bot on ebay a supposedly good rem 700 magnum bolt body ... but someone had managed to enlarge the ring around the cartridge base .... i am sure the seller hadn't noticed the bulge ... hah ... anyway it would take a lot of pressure to expand that belted magnum solid base and bolt ring ...

more, please ..

ken

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OU812 posted this 06 February 2018

I will have to use my Dremel tool to cut case out from bolt face. I feel so stupid. This is the second time doing this.

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OU812 posted this 06 February 2018

Had a very good day at the 100 yard range until a double charge of n120 locked my bolt. Hot gases were blown in my face and I thought I blew up the rifle bolt. Case head is just swollen to bolt face and will be removed for another day. The 223 bolt face ring is beefy.

Here are some sub 1/2" groups using H4198 powder, Lino and Hard 15bhn birdshot. The best I could get Titegroup to group was slightly under 1" using 10 bhn birdshot alloy. I know I can do better using Titegroup.

I was mostly shooting just three shot groups trying to find something that shoots good.

I learned again that Lino fouls less than softer Birdshot. The SPG lube, Linotype alloy and H4198 powder did verywell and fouling seemed to be lowest using the soft SPG.

The rifle is a factory Remington 700 VS chambered in 223.

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OU812 posted this 05 February 2018

I sanded down (steel wool) and reused one of my old pound cast. The soft pure lead bullet was epoxied into case and is holding up well. It can be used over and over to check other 223 rifles.

It is what it is.

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Scearcy posted this 04 February 2018

Good stuff! I am reading every word.

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OU812 posted this 03 February 2018

I will do a chamber cast to try and measure actual shape of throat. I think the first bullets I tried were a tad too small diameter and caused hot gases to blow by and melt lead causing fouling. So a slight taper should work best or maybe cut a larger diameter below lube groove at base of bump die. This should help seal bullet better and prevent blow by.

Or use a softer alloy and bump bullet a tad larger diameter from .2242 to .2252. 

 

 

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OU812 posted this 01 February 2018

 Notice rifling marks on bullet (even length all around bullet) after chambering and ejecting. This bullet measures .2252 diameter.  Runout is .001 or less with every bullet seated. SPG black powder lube in groove.

Fouling and wrong pressure curve is the enemy.

These bullets can be chambered from magazine if seated a tad deeper.

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OU812 posted this 01 February 2018

I was reading the Lee Bullet Sizing Kit instructions and they state "For rifle and hot handgun loads, it is best to re-lube the bullets to insure the sized portion is recoated". So after seating bullets I scuffed bullets with 0000 steel wool and then put a thin coat of liquid alox on the long bearing surface. Soft LBT blue lube is packed inside gas check shank. 

Also loaded a few using just the soft SPG lube (no alox) thinking this thin lube will work better in cold weather. Bullets were scuffed and hand smeared with thin coat of SPG on bearing surface after seating.

Trying 4759, H4198, n120, 680, Titegroup

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John Alexander posted this 28 January 2018

Let us know it coating the bearing surfaces has any effect.  It seems so reasonable and I used to do it a lot but when tested I couldn't dectect any difference but who knows.

John

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